The part of Malachi 3 they don’t want you to see. The Lord’s promised judgement on Christian Sh*tty Church Whitehorse

The battle goes on for recompense by a Melbourne man in a vulnerable situation who was clearly exploited by Christian Sh*tty Church Whitehorse.

Ongoing updates are provided at www.liquidpixel.biz

Part of the author’s claim is that he is still owed wages of $48,499.85 for 1400 hours of website development work that was arranged by an unqualified social worker at the church.

We know how much Christian Sh*tty Church loves (abusing) Malachi 3 when soliciting ‘tithes’ (despite Hebrews 7:11 clearly saying that old testament laws such as tithing are obsolete)

Malachi 3:5 says…

“5 “So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,” says the LORD Almighty.”

Christian Sh*tty Church vs. The Judgement of God.

Should be an interesting stoush.

Christian Sh*tty Church – ecksalentz in speling – port 2

This is a follow-up to the previous post http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/christian-shtty-church-ecksalentz-in-speling/  which noted how the Christian Sh*tty Church’s ‘Involved’ team had posted information about the importance of ‘first impressions’ and ‘excellence’ which was comically riddled with spelling errors .. bonus capital letters..etc.

Part of the reason I did the post was to see if the Christian Sh*tty Church people are monitoring this site.

And it appears they are. Someone’s gone through and fixed most of the mistakes.

For example, what was originally there…

“….Our desire is that anyone could walk in off the street and have such an excellent experiences (in ervery way), that they would not be able to comapre it to any other experience they have had outside the House of God….”

Now reads…

“Our desire is that anyone could walk in off the street and have such an excellent experience (in every way), that they would not be able to compare it to any other experience they have had outside the House of God.”

Although, in a way I’m a bit disappointed they’ve fixed the errors.

It would have been much more Penty to say..’hey, we’re not like the world, we spell things OUR OWN way. Awesome. Ay-men.’

 

Grand Theft Jesus

The Clarion-Ledger reports…

“Most of Robert McElvaine’s nine books have focused on the Great Depression. But the historian’s latest work delves into what he considers a more recent dark period in American life: contemporary Christianity.

Titled Grand Theft Jesus: The Hijacking of Religion in America (Crown Publishers, $23.95), McElvaine’s book argues that televangelists and megachurch leaders have corrupted the Christianity that Jesus represented.

The Clarion-Ledger recently talked with the Millsaps College history department chair about his new book.

Q: You’re a historian. Why did you write a book about religion?

A: Over the last two decades I’ve been increasingly upset at what I’ve seen being done in the name of Christianity. I consider myself a Christian. But what I’ve seen being accepting in mainstream media as people who are speaking in the name of Christianity, those people are essentially standing Jesus on his head and really preaching the opposite of what he preached.

Q: What impact do you hope your book will have?

A: We need a sort of new reformation, but we need more than that, a revolution in the literal sense of the word. That is to go full circle back to what Jesus taught and make that the basis of Christianity.

Q: When you were writing the book, Jerry Falwell died and Ted Haggard had his fall from grace. Do you think the influence of some of the old guard evangelicals is waning?

A: I think there’s a good deal of truth in that. But on the other hand some of the most powerful people like (Pat) Robertson still have a big following. James Dobson is still one of the old guard and quite often is preaching the opposite of what Jesus did. Then you’ve got Joel Osteen. He’s not for the most part doing the sort of Falwell/Robertson hate-people-who-aren’t-like-you kind of thing, but what he is preaching is basically this gospel of prosperity, that if you believe in Jesus it will make you rich. I think Osteen is a perfect example of what I refer to as Christianity Lite. The sort of religion that’s the equivalent of a program to lose weight without diet and exercise. Be saved without sacrifice or good works.

Q: What’s your faith background?

A: I’m a convert to Catholicism. Though unlike many converts I’m not fanatical about it at all. It would be safe to describe me as a what they call a “cafeteria Catholic” because I reject a number of things that seem to be wrong. Most center around in the Catholic church questions concerning women and sex and so forth.

Q: What’s been the reaction so far to your book?

A: Reaction has been very good so far. It’s not as widespread as I would like it to be. Part of the reason it has been overwhelming good is in part because it hasn’t yet come to the attention of the sort of people I’m criticizing and who won’t like it at all.

Q: Are you concerned that some people you are trying to reach will think your book is attacking Christianity?

A: That’s a possibility. I say early in the book I don’t expect the people whose minds I would hope to change to agree with everything I’m saying. But to at least give it a chance and read the book and compare what I’m saying with the red words in the Bible. See whether what I’m saying matches better with the teaching of Jesus than with the prosperity gospel and Christianity Lite.”

From http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080621/FEAT04/806210316/1022/feat04

The six million dollar men

The Sunday Age reports….

“The role of the fundamentalist church Revival Centres International in a failed property development company could come under scrutiny in the NSW Supreme Court, as creditors owed almost $6 million queue up to find out what went wrong.

Glenn and Matthew Duker, the two former directors of RVP Group, a failed Gold Coast property development company, were pastors of the Melbourne-based church. Five pastors in total, including the church’s deputy leader, Vic Samoilenko, were investors, as were many of their flock.

Victims have told The Sunday Age they invested in the high-risk venture, without seeking independent advice, because they trusted the Dukers. Common law recognises that the relationship between religious leader and parishioner is of greater influence even than that between parent and child.

But RVP Group’s former auditor, retired Melbourne accountant Allan Walker, suggested investors had been “stupid”.

“Who is being stupid here? … You’re spending more than half a million dollars on a house … I mean, how in God’s name can you sign a document … where you’re handing over control? … Would you not seek both legal and accounting advice on it?” Mr Walker said.

The church and its leader, Pastor Simon Longfield, continue to stand by the Dukers, instead ostracising the complainants, Craig and Sue Williams, and forcing them out of the church.

On the day three weeks ago that The Sunday Age revealed the allegations against RVP Group, Mr Longfield told an assembly of the faithful in Melbourne that they would support Matthew Duker, to which the other pastors replied “Amen”. Mr Longfield then invited Mr Duker to lead the communion.

But liquidator Bruce Gleeson told The Sunday Age: “I want to look at whether or not there was any misusage of the church group they belonged to.”

He is checking documents and will interview the current company director, Glenn Duker’s wife, Lorilea. As well as the church, he will also consider Supreme Court examinations for Mr Walker and Mr Duker’s legal advisers.

The Duker family has declined to comment, but Mr Walker, who has been a friend of the family for decades as well as RVP Group auditor, said they had authorised him to speak. He said that everyone was “fighting over a skeleton, because there are no assets there”.

It was likely that Glenn and Lorilea Duker would go into bankruptcy as a result of the collapse. They, and other family members, had poured their father Jim’s inheritance into the company and lost it, he said.

“The main person who has been burned is probably (Glenn Duker),” Mr Walker said. “To the tune of $10-$20 million … He’s had probably 500 breakdowns in the past two weeks … he’s been presented as a bad person, and I don’t think he is a bad person. I think Glenn in some ways has been probably over-Christian, and not been a big enough bastard.”

Mr Walker blamed aggrieved investor and former RVP Group employee Craig Williams for the mess.”

From http://www.theage.com.au/national/church-may-face-scrutiny-over-failed-investment-20080628-2yk4.html?page=-1

Peter Jensen, church-wrecker

The Washington Times reports..

“Conservative Anglicans will declare a split from the U.S. Episcopal Church on Sunday, but will stop short of schism with the archbishop of Canterbury, the head of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

”There will be permanent division, one way or the other,” said Archbishop Peter Jensen of Sydney, Australia, one of the organizers of the weeklong Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON), adding that he expected “long-term consequences” for the Anglican Communion.

Archbishop Jensen pinned the blame for the schism on the Episcopal Church, calling its 2003 consecration of a practicing homosexual as bishop of New Hampshire “an extraordinary strategic blunder” that has divided the church.

In a statement to be released here Sunday morning, the GAFCON churches, mostly from Africa and elsewhere in the developing world, are expected to form a “church within a church,” breaking with the liberal churches of North America that also have permitted the blessing of same-sex unions.

Relations with the office of the archbishop of Canterbury will not be severed, but it appears likely that they will be qualified in some form.

The new “church within a church” will force the 80-million member Anglican Communion either to become a weak federation of independent churches or, in the unlikely event that Canterbury either kicked out the GAFCON churches or the North American churches, will produce one of the most far-reaching Christian schisms since the Protestant Reformation.

If the Episcopal Church “did not believe that there would be consequences” for consecrating an openly practicing homosexual as a bishop, “that was an arrogant thing,” Archbishop Jensen said, adding that the “consequences have been unfolding over the last five years. Now their church is divided.”

“All around the world, the sleeping giant that is evangelical Anglicanism and orthodox Anglicanism has been aroused” and will break with the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada, he said.

The GAFCON meeting includes more than 1,200 Anglican bishops, clergy and lay leaders at the Renaissance Hotel in Jerusalem from churches that make up the majority of the communion’s members.

The meeting also will announce new structures for parishes in the U.S. and Canada that no longer wish to be in communion with their national churches – an act made possible in church law and custom by the declaration that unity with the North American churches no longer exists. In addition, more than 600 Church of England clergy will reportedly swear allegiance to the new GAFCON body at a meeting next week in London.

GAFCON comes a month before the Anglican Communion summit in Lambeth, England. The Anglican churches of Nigeria, Uganda and Kenya are present here, but will boycott the once-per-decade Lambeth Conference.

It will also put forward a declaration of common doctrinal principles and lay out plans for a new Book of Common Prayer based on the historic Church of England 1662 prayer book. Nigerian Bishop John Akao said the GAFCON churches also will pursue a common way of reading and interpreting the Bible and work on a definitive catechism.

Bishop Gregory Venables of Argentina said that previous meetings with the North American archbishops and bishops had proved fruitless in resolving the disputes, which center on Biblical authority and interpretation and which played out most obviously in disputes over sex and sexuality.

“We got frustrated. We talked and talked, but where did we go?” Bishop Venables said, saying the liberal churches were quite willing to meet and discuss issues, but then continued to act as they wished. “If only they would have come and talked to us and listen to us,” a schism could have been avoided.

The Sydney archbishop, leader of the largest group of Anglicans in Australia, said he had been unsure at the start of the conference whether it would succeed.

GAFCON resembled a “ramshackle airplane, and I was never sure it was going to land,” he said, but it turned out to be one of the most “extraordinary spiritual experiences I have ever had.”

From http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jun/29/anglicans-poised-to-split-from-church/

If you can’t build a verandah, bbq and shadecloth on top of the Sydney Opera House, what made Hill$ong think it could plonk a megachurch in quiet established suburban Rosebery?

The City of Sydney reports…

“An independent planning assessment of a $78M proposal by the Hillsong Church to build a seven-level office building and a 2,700 seat church with 679 car parking spaces in Rosebery recommends the application be refused.

The Central Sydney Planning Committee (CSPC), which determines development applications in the City of Sydney valued at more than $50M, will meet on Thursday 3 July at 6pm in the Wesley Conference Centre to consider the matter.

The meeting is open to the public and people are invited to attend and register to speak.

The independent assessment by Angelini Planning Services – commissioned by the City of Sydney – found the proposal exceeded height, parking and floor space limits and would exacerbate traffic problems in the surrounding residential streets.

“The proposed development is one of medium intensity commercial development of a height and scale that does not match the predominant building form in the locality,” the report says.

“A high intensity Church use will generate significant traffic movements and demand for parking during periods (weekends in particular) that are generally associated with a reduction in traffic movements and parking demand.

“It is not considered acceptable on planning grounds to effectively duplicate week day peak traffic volumes for significant periods of the weekend in close proximity to residential land uses.”

The report found that both the proposed 33.3 metre tall office block and 17.9 metre tall auditorium exceed the maximum building height of 12 metres. Although an existing former RTA office on the site currently exceeds the height limit, the report said that replacing one anomaly with a similar anomaly on the same block of land is questionable from an urban design point of view.

The report also found the floor space ratio for the development of 1.62:1 exceeded the maximum allowable ratio of 1.5:1.

The independent planner examined six different traffic management assessments commissioned by Hillsong, City of Sydney and Rosebery residents.

A report by MWT in May 2008 commissioned by City of Sydney found the traffic generation for the site will be 428 vehicles per hour during the weekday AM peak, 530 vehicles during the PM peak and 1350 per hour for the Sunday services peak.

“It is generally accepted by all [six separate] reports that: The use of the auditorium component of the proposed development will generate additional traffic on the local and wider road systems when used for church services,” the planning report says.

The City of Sydney notified more than 3,400 nearby properties about the development proposal, advertised the application widely and held a public meeting on February 14.

More than 1092 individual submissions were received including 276 objections and 816 letters and emails of support. Petitions for and against the proposal were also received.

Objectors were concerned about traffic and parking issues, noise and amenity loss while submissions in support said Hillsong would create social benefits for the area and the proposal included a large 5,667 square metre publicly accessible park.

Members of the CSPC will listen to comments from members of the public for and against the proposal before discussing the matter.

The CSPC was established by the State Government in 1988 and is made up of seven members including three City of Sydney representatives, two senior State Government employees and independent experts appointed by the Planning Minister. The Lord Mayor Clover Moore MP is the chairperson of the Committee.

CSPC MEETING DETAILS
 
Thursday 3 July 2008
6 pm – 8.30 pm (doors open 5.30 pm)
Wesley Centre, 220 Pitt St, Sydney

Speakers: Members of the public who wish to address the meeting are required to register their name by phoning the City’s Secretariat office on 9265-9190 from 9am on Monday 30 June. It is likely a maximum of 20 supporters and 20 objectors will be heard on the night and limited to two minutes each.

Transport: The City of Sydney has organised community buses for residents who need assistance to get to the meeting and home again. The buses will depart between 5pm and 5.15 pm at the corner of Queen St/Rothschild Ave, Rosebery and Dalmeny Ave/Hayes Rd, Rosebery.

Media: Media are asked to register their interest in attending by phone Josh Mackenzie on 9265-9082

Media Contact:  Josh MacKenzie (02) 92659082 or 0402 351 459″

http://www.sydneymedia.com.au/html/3636-hillsong-development-proposal-to-be-determined-by-cspc-.asp?orig=Home

Hill$ong’s General Manager George Aghajanian replies…..

“Whilst we believe that this Development Application process has been highly politicised, we are open to working with Council and the community to find a way forward.

We have been serving the people in the South Sydney area for over 30 years and are part of the fabric of this community.”

http://www2.hillsong.com/church/default.asp?pid=2332

 

Warwick Christian Fellowship labels 4 Corners report ‘disappointing’

The Warwick (Qld.) Daily News reports…

“A Warwick church has been accused of controlling members to the point where everything from holiday destinations to life partners have to be approved by the organisation’s elders.

Theresa Coulton left the Warwick Christian Fellowship in November after three years, during which she said the organisation attempted to control all aspects of her life.

She spoke out this week as part of an ABC Four Corners documentary investigating the Brisbane and Toowoomba Christian Fellowship chapters. The Fellowship was investigated after former members claimed the church was controlling and ex-communicated those querying doctrines and divided families.

Warwick Christian Fellowship elder Andrew Hay yesterday labelled the documentary and its allegations as “disappointing”.

Mr Hay, who has been an elder since 1991, was reluctant to comment further saying his church had less than 100 members locally and hardly represented a major Pentecostal body.

Ms Coulton said she joined the church as a city newcomer looking for a supportive, Christian environment.

“At the start they were lovely, welcoming people, who wanted to be involved in my life,” she said.

“But the more controlling they became the more I started to feel suffocated.”

When she finally decided to leave she was ostracised by members and told “the only path to salvation was through their church”.

Another local woman said it took her five years to work up the courage to leave the Fellowship.

The woman said she became involved with the church as a seven year old when her parents swapped their mainstream Presbyterian beliefs for the Christian Fellowship.

It wasn’t until she was 29 and tired of the group’s controlling tactics, which she claimed oversaw everything from where she went on holidays to whom she dated, that she abandoned the church.

The decision came at a price. Her parents and several siblings were still actively involved and they warned her if she left she would be “condemned to hell”.

“I’d given 10 per cent of my gross income to the church, I’d dated the boys they wanted me to, I’d limited my friends to those in my bible study group, I’d almost accepted women were subservient to men,” she said. “The Fellowship was all I knew, the elders had always decided for me but eventually I started questioning their right to make decisions about my life.”

The Warwick Christian Fellowship was founded in 1990 with 20 members. Today it operates from its Emmaus Court premises, as a combined entity with the Stanthorpe Christian Fellowship.

Both churches come under the banner of the Brisbane Christian Fellowship and the Restoration Fellowship, which has branches across Australia and throughout the world.”

From http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3776600

Christian Sh*tty Church – ecksalentz in speling

It never ceases to amaze me, the self-delusion of the people at Christian Sh*tty Church, Oxford Falls.

This is exactly as the text appears on their website page titled ‘We Are Known For…’

http://www.ccc.org.au/default.asp?page=VOLculture

“….Our desire is that anyone could walk in off the street and have such an excellent experiences (in ervery way), that they would not be able to comapre it to any other experience they have had outside the House of God….”

That’s followed by an amusing contradiction of ideals.

First they say they want to be ‘authentic’.

“An authentic encounter means that a guest at our services walks away knowing that the experience they have just had was real.  Authenticity by definition is about credibility and genuineness.  OUr aim is that in every area of service, our guests would encounter pastors, staff, leaders, volunteers and congregation members who are real, genuine and credible in their Christianity.”

The very next paragraph then outlines how they get people to act fake.

“…..Our utmost desire is to roll out the ‘Welcome Mat’ at each serfice for our guests and congregation.  This is a team effort which involves a cheerful host of Carpark Attendants smiling and waving, vibrant Welcomers in the forecourt and foyer, a knowledgeable Concierge team, helpful Seaters assisting people to their seats, Pastors and Service Hosts giving out Welcome Cards, a lively Courtyard Connect team and of course complimentary Tim Tams in our Visitors’ lounge!….”

And then after an exhausting two hours of being fake, they go back to being their authentic selves where they snob you and return to being consumed by trying to make money.

Having said that, I can’t vouch for the Christian Sh*tty Church website being authentic.

If your pastor was evading tax, how would you know?

The Register-Guard reports….

“A Junction City pastor and his relatives in South Dakota have paid more than $1.8 million in taxes, fraud penalties and interest for evading taxes through a shady trust scheme engineered by a Chicago firm whose representative is serving a 30-month federal prison term for conspiracy.

The pastor, Jon Bowers, 64, also was sentenced to 10 months in federal custody and ordered to pay a $30,000 fine on two misdemeanor counts of filing false income tax returns.

According to court records, Bowers admitted filing a 1999 federal income tax return listing his income as $33,269 when he knew the correct amount was $133,619. He also admitted filing a 2000 federal income tax return listing his income as $54,606 when the correct amount was $154,606.

Bowers, who is a founding pastor at Christ’s Center Church in Junction City, was a partner in a mint distilling operation near Pierre, S.D., with three relatives — James Bowers, 67, Kent Bowers, 45, and Kurt Bowers, 47, all of Pierre.

In a news release Thursday, U.S. Attorney Marty Jackley said the men entered a complex scheme designed to conceal assets from the IRS that were marketed by Aegis Corp. of Chicago.

The scheme placed assets and income in management companies and trusts, which concealed the fact the assets remained in control of the defendants, according to court records. The defendants then failed to report their true incomes, the records indicate.

Bowers did not return messages left at the church and his home on Thursday. His lawyer in South Dakota is out of town and unavailable for comment this week, according to the office answering service.

According to Jackley, Kurt Bowers was sentenced to 36 months in prison and ordered to pay $89,041 in restitution for unpaid taxes from 1999. He has paid $317,000 in back taxes and owes $1.6 million more.

Kent Bowers was sentenced to 12 months in custody and ordered to pay a $50,000 fine. He has paid $297,000 in back taxes and still owes $450,000.

James Bowers was sentenced to 10 months in custody and ordered to pay a $40,000 fine.

James and Jon Bowers have paid all of the $1,229,503 in taxes, fraud penalties, and interest that they owed, Jackley said.

The Aegis Corp. agent, Kerwin Miller of Mitchell, S.D., pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the United States in the scheme and was sentenced in September to 30 months in prison. In court, Miller acknowledged the IRS had warned him the trusts were illegal but he nonetheless continued to promote them, Jackley said.

“Using these trusts to hide income from the IRS is against the law, and it’s unfair to the millions of other Americans who pay what they owe,” Jackley said. “The case should remind taxpayers to be skeptical. If a tax-reducing scheme sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”

The investigation stems from a nationwide IRS crackdown on fraudulent trust schemes, he said.”

From http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=114944&sid=4&fid=1

Todd Bentley miraculously removes cash from wallets and purses

World Magazine reports…

“Canadian Todd Bentley doesn’t look much like a minister. The 32-year-old has body piercings and tattoos on his arms and neck, and he often dresses in black.

But a minister of the gospel he is, or claims to be—and those claims have become the real story of a series of meetings Bentley is holding in Lakeland, [Florida, USA]

Bentley’s British Columbia-based Fresh Fire Ministries arrived in Lakeland on April 2 for five days of revival meetings at a local church. These services would be broadcast on God TV, a satellite network with a worldwide viewership.

The services were different in another way, Bentley claims: God showed up in a powerful way. A New York public relations firm was quickly hired to send out press releases claiming “documented healings,” and God TV relentlessly plugged its broadcasts of the services.

The services, now held in a huge air-conditioned tent, have gone on for months now, and as many as 10,000 people a night are coming. Bentley claims hundreds of people have been healed of everything from deafness to infertility—though he did admit that in the latter case we wouldn’t know for sure until the women actually got pregnant. As for the other cases, WORLD made repeated requests for documentation of healings, but claims of “privacy issues” were the only response.

A visit to one of Bentley’s services suggests that he is learning how to turn the big crowds into big money. ATM machines have been set up, providing attendees with ready cash for the offering plate and book purchases. The offering is now a significant part of the service, taking as long as 30 minutes. Bentley has not released financial information, saying he is “too busy keeping up with what God is doing” to pull the information together.

More than 150,000 people have attended the meetings, and at least 1.2 million more (according to God TV estimates) have watched on television. Even accepting Fresh Fire’s estimate of an average donation of $3 to $5 per person, it’s easy to see how donations could end up in the millions………..”

From http://www.worldmag.com/articles/14145

Phil Baker’s Revenue Church doesn’t retrench people. It ‘releases them from paid ministry employment’

Brisbane Christian Fellowship on 4 Corners #2

You can watch the entire 4 Corners report on Brisbane Christian Fellowship along with unaired (is that a word?) extended interviews with former Fellowship members at http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2008/20080623_bcf/interviews.htm

One aspect of the program that I’ll note, was the admission by former members that while they were in the Fellowship, they acted as though they understood what was being taught by the leaders, when they really didn’t.

It seems to be standard practice in Pentecostal churches in particular for members and pastors to say that a speaker has brought ‘a great word’. That’s always mystified me, because clearly the teaching was lame, nebulous, abstract guff.

Up to now, I just thought that the congregation had really low standards, but it seems more likely that it’s just an oral tradition (in ‘oral sects’) for everyone to say that the speaker has brought a ‘great word’ when the truth is that hardly anyone has a clue what it is that’s being taught.

 

How did Todd Bentley slip into Australia?

The video is footage of controversial Canadian revival preacher Todd Bentley at a March 2008 conference on the Gold Coast.

“We have now finished ministering at the Downpour Conference on the Gold Coast of Australia. The team is headed home for a week of rest before Todd goes to Mexico to hold a crusade with his STC bible school students. But we had an amazing week on the Gold Coast, as Revolution church hosted the Fresh Fire team and did an awesome job. Before the conference started the team enjoyed a few days at the beach and explored some of the animal safari parks. Todd got to enjoy a bike ride on a Harley through the local mountains and visited with some kangaroos. When the conference started it was God’s thick dwelling presence that seemed to characterize every session. All the states of Australia were represented at the conference and hundreds of pastors came to be refreshed and stirred-up in the presence of the Lord. On the second evening the Lord appeared to Todd with a baton in his hand…….”

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=&id=13&pid=993

Mr. Bentley, along with any visitor to Australia, is only allowed entry to Australia after satisfying the Immigration Department that they meet the requirements of legislation, known as ‘The Character Test’.

The department’s guidelines note..

“A person will fail the character test where:

• they have a substantial criminal record …….

………..

A person is deemed to have a substantial criminal record if they have been:

………..sentenced to a term of imprisonment for 12 months or more ……..”

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/79character.htm

“When a visa applicant or visa holder does not pass the character test, decision-makers will decide whether to refuse the application or to cancel a visa. Exercise of this discretion will take into account a wide range of factors, including the protection of the Australian community, the expectations of the community, the best interest of any children under 18 years of age, as well as other considerations such as the non-citizen’s links to Australia, and any relevant international law obligations.

The exercise of the discretion is guided by the Minister’s direction made under section 499 of the Act.”

So someone with a ’substantial criminal record’ can get into Australia, if it’s approved by the Immigration minister whose decision is final.

So what’s this got to do with Todd Bentley?

“The Report News magazine, 04-30-2001 by Rick Hiebert -

Does forgiving mean forgetting? A faith healer comes clean on his young-offender conviction for child
molestation.

Todd Bentley has a confession to make. A faith healer who has attracted international attention over the past several months, Bentley presents himself as a reformed bad boy who was once jailed for 18 months for ” crimes of an assault nature” and breaking-and-entering in his hometown of Gibsons, B.C.

The truth is, his most serious crime was more heinous: the molestation of a seven-year-old boy. “They were sexual crimes,” Bentley admits. “I was involved in a sexual-assault ring. I turned around and did what had happened to me. I was assaulted too.”

“I don’t like to talk about it publicly because it would hurt [my ministry ].” he concedes. “I don’t whip it out in the newspapers or on TV because people will go ‘Whaaa?’ I’ll say ‘I was in prison, period. Let’s move on.’”

Bentley’s admission took place after he was confronted with information given to The Report following the magazine’s publication of a story (” Signs and wonders,” March 5) on his burgeoning ministry. Federal law protects young offenders by prohibiting the dissemination of any information that may identify a youth convicted of a crime, but Bentley, now 25, freely provided details of the offence. “I was 13 years old when I committed my crime,” he says. “I was jailed at 14.” (In fact, The Report has learned that Bentley molested the boy in October 1990, when Bentley was 14, and that he was sentenced in March 1991, when he was 15.)

Bentley, who is now married and is the father of three young children, stresses he has repented for his crime and has undergone three years of counselling. “There has not been and there won’t be other cases,” says the
evangelical faith healer, who feels he needs no counselling to ensure he does not re-offend. “It’s something that’s dead and buried for me.”

But, in an age when the likes of Protestant televangelists and Catholic priests have been ensnared by sexual scandal, the issue is far from dead.

Denny Cline, pastor of the Albany, Oregon, Vineyard church where Bentley launched a healing revival last year, looks on him as a spiritual son and says Bentley always exhibits a godly character. Upon learning of Bentley’s molesting offence, Pastor Cline remarks, “I don’t think he told me that, but it wouldn’t have mattered anyway. It wouldn’t have mattered in regards to what he is doing now, and the person that he is now…If he’s paid his debt to society and God’s forgiven him of everything, then who am I to not forgive?”

On the other hand, Lieutenant Jeff Johnston, a Salvation Army pastor in Port Alberni, B.C., who used to work in Bentley’s hometown, is more skeptical. “There’s absolutely no way that I would allow my own kids to come within a million miles of anyone who had been involved in a youth sexual assault,” he says. Lieut. Johnston notes a church group tried to bring Bentley to Gibsons for a series of meetings in 1997, but the gatherings were called off after Lieut. Johnston and other pastors threatened not to allow their youth groups to attend. “It’s one thing to be forgiving, it’s another thing to be stupid,” Lieut. Johnston says. “If you, as a pastor, had someone in your church ministry who had been involved in these things and they ever re-offended, the fact that you knew and didn’t disclose it to parents, take every precaution, would be a huge liability issue.”

http://www.toddbentley.org/history-of-todd-bentley.htm

According to Australia’s laws, Bentley should be permanently excluded from entry to the country.

So much for border protection.

Brisbane Christian Fellowship on 4 Corners

news.com.au reports…

“Former cult members have spoken out to warn others of a Brisbane church they say is emotionally abusing its followers.

Former followers have told ABC’s Four Corners program, to air tonight, the Brisbane Christian Fellowship, in the north Brisbane suburb of Stafford, was ripping apart families under a veil of secrecy.

They said elders, including leader Victor Hall, made all members’ decisions and drove wedges between couples, siblings and parents and children to create fear and control followers.

Followers are banished if they disobey directions.

The church is linked to others worldwide, including the Melbourne Christian Fellowship, and has been operating under different names in Australia since the 1950s.

Former member Helen Pomery, who was expelled for refusing to shun her excommunicated daughter, said she had considered suicide during her time with the group and had to travel to a deprogramming centre in the USA after she left.

“I was very sick emotionally, mentally, and I was at the point of suicide and I knew if I didn’t get help then I would probably suicide… but if anything that infuriated my husband and the elders even more that I should go outside of the home for help,” she told Four Corners.

Ms Pomery said the emotional abuse was dished out as a way to control people.

While she was disciplined for things such as cooking too much food or making the bed the wrong way, her husband had obeyed orders so that he was not responsible for his family’s damnation, she said.

Former BCF group leader and electrician David Lowe, whose job was to provide counselling to members, said the congregation’s secrets were immediately conveyed to elders.

He said he had spoken out as a way to reach his wife and three children who remain church members.

“They need to know from me as a husband and a father that I believe they’re in a bad place,” Mr Lowe said.

Ms Pomery said she and a handful of others had spoken to the program.”

From http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23906324-29277,00.html

Hill$ong and Frank Damazio

Speaking at Hill$ong this weekend is Frank Damazio, the senior pastor of City Bible Church in Portland, USA.

He is not unfamiliar with Australia, as his wife Sharon is an Australian, in fact, she’s the sister of Mark Conner, the senior pastor of City Life Church in suburban Melbourne (where Frank will be speaking next weekend)

Hill$ong, as part of its obsession with pastors from the United States, has an uncanny ability to invite preachers with dodgy beliefs and teachings.

Damazio is no exception, and his critics have a website devoted to examining City Bible Church’s exploitative teachings.

http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blog

Here’s one example of the City Business Church blog’s take on Damazio’s approach to enforcing tithing.

“In the past, there has been some debate over City Bible’s tithing policy for employees. As luck would have it, I was able to acquire City Bible’s employee handbook.

Here, written verbatim, is their policy.

TITHING

Consistent tithing is a requirement for continued employment as a staff member and as part of the ministry team at City Bible Church. Each quarter the giving records of all staff are reviewed. In the event that a staff member is not meeting the requirement, a meeting with Church Business Administrator will be scheduled. If after that meeting, no change has been made the staff member will be notified of possible termination.

For further understanding of this vital area please refer to lesson #16 Stewardship from Foundation Truth: Understanding Church Life by Pastor Frank Damazio.”

http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blog/2005/05/20/city-bible-tithing-policy/

Back in Melbourne, brother-in-law Mark Conner makes tithing a condition of church membership.

“Stewardship
This is a commitment to give to God the first 10% of your income (a tithe) and to contribute offerings to various ministries of the church. This can be accomplished through faithful tithing and offerings as well as bequests or interest free loans to the church.”

http://www.citylifechurch.com/church/partnership/

Interest-free loans? I’ve never heard of the Bank Of Congregation, but these money-centric preachers will stop at nothing to get your hard-earned.

At the City Business Church blog, these are the chief concerns about Frank Damazio.

“(1) not telling his church that he does not believe in the same doctrine of biblical inerrancy posted on his own church’s website (maybe he’s changed his mind since he last talked with me and gave me that distinct impression);

(2) his unbiblical doctrine of the “Faith Harvest Offering” which makes Christians earn God’s favor through financial offerings (the support for which one of [his] staffers gave to Reformed Pope but still without a source even after receiving a request for it!);

(3) the false teaching of the mandatory tithe, which is not taught in the New Testament for believers;  

(4) operating the local church like a one-man show, promoting himself, his ministry, his books, his CDs at the expense of others being overlooked – not operating a true team ministry;  

(5) steering the local church’s Bible college away from genuine academics by firing two of the most academically-oriented staffers; making it more of a pool of free volunteers to support his own vision; 

(6) forming an association for senior pastors and charging for their membership – which really should be a non-monetary and free fellowship of brothers in Christ;

(7) making too much money from the local church (reliable sources tell me he makes over $200,000/yr salary + benefits + guest speaking honorariums + royalties from his side business/ministry) 

( 8 ) being the only one supported by the local church to have a retirement plan (per one of the elders of the church); who made this decision? the senior pastor? the elders? the people? 

(9) preaching too much about money and thus ignoring most of the other parts of the Bible; actively promoting the false gospel of financial prosperity;

(10) extending his own ministry via a simulcast network instead of sending out pastors to plant their own churches in those areas and “sharing the pulpit” with other men instead of being the continuing central focus and celebrity; continuing, with each simulcast campus extension, to be more aloof and removed from the people who pay his monthly bills; 

(11) turning the church into a high-tech theatre for Christian entertainment with the platform being the central focus of the drama rather than the people themselves who deserve to share the Word, prophesy, move in the gifts, carry each other’s burdens, and pray for one another during the weekend services and not just in their marginalized, small groups.”

http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blog/2007/06/02/pastor-frank-repent/

I’m sure Frank Damazio will feel right at home at Hill$ong this weekend.

Blake Richards update

A follow-up to this post..

http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/we-stand-by-him-people-invest-money-in-all-kinds-of-things-and-sometimes-they-get-hurt-thats-part-of-life/

From the South Coast Register..

“Accountants and financial planners in Merimbula and Pambula have expressed concern that an Ulladulla based accountant, 50-year-old Blake Richards, who is suspended from the National Institute of Accountants, is seeking business in the local area.

Speaking on behalf of local accountants, Pambula accountant Colin Salt said he was concerned that some local businesses had been referred to Blake Richards and were clearly unaware of his alleged activities.

Mr Richards has been suspended from the Institute after allegations of fraud, poorly constructed investment advice and failure to tell clients they were investing in related entities of the accountant.

It is believed people from the Merimbula region had invested funds with this accountant.

Mr Richards has been the subject of substantial media attention through The Sydney Morning Herald and Channel Nine’s “A Current Affair” for his activities in financial planning.

He was described in The Sydney Morning Herald’s article of June 9, headed “With God on his side” as a devout Christian and former warden of Ulladulla’s St Martin’s Anglican Church and was a founding parent of the local Christian school and chairman of a youth charity foundation.

He was a well known accountant who ran a thriving practice on Ulladulla’s main street.

Clients included schools, churches, businesses and anyone with money to invest in his many and varied investment schemes.

“People trusted Blake, and I think he has betrayed that trust,” said a pastor of the Anglican parish of Ulladulla the Rev. Geoff Deutscher in the SMH article, .

“But he doesn’t seem to have any sense of reality or comprehension of the pain that he has caused people.

“It’s like he’s in a fantasy world,” said Mr Deutscher

Mr Salt said, “Our advice to the public is to ensure that when you receive tax advice always use accredited professional people who belong to a recognised accounting body such as CPA, NIA or ICA.”

“When seeking investment advice look for a Certified Financial Planner certification (CPA), the only globally recognised mark of professionalism for financial planners.”

http://nowra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/alarm-bells-sounded-over-suspended-accountant/791504.aspx

Princess Theology Watch: Destiny Church Houston – Let’s Get Pampered ‘08

Danny Nalliah’s ‘gold dust’ fraud

Melbourne-based Pentecostal preacher Danny Nalliah reports that ‘gold dust’ has manifested at healing services in outer suburban Hallam.

“Throughout the duration of the meetings members of Catch The Fire prayer team were praying in the prayer room, some receiving gold-dust and the oil of the Spirit on their palms, remaining after the meeting closed at midnight. Pastor Danny said, “Previously, I had been unsure of these particular supernatural manifestations, but now I know they are really from the Spirit of the Lord!”

The Revival meetings now will continue each night (except Wednesdays) until further notice: week nights at 7.30pm with weekends at 6.30pm. Please continue to check website for constant updates and photos, including the leaflet for printing and distributing throughout your church, friends and family, on the Revival Outpouring in Melbourne being held at Christian Community Church, 30 Star Crescent, in Hallam.”

http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2008/06/19/holy-spirit-revival-outpouring-in-melbourne-extended-meetings-every-night-of-the-week-except-wednesdays-until-further-notice/#more-1311

Unforutnately, the ‘gold dust’ trick was debunked years ago in the US.

“Two independent tests on samples of the gold-colored dust that
falls from Silvania Machado’s head during services have found the
substance to be more like plastic glitter, with no gold content.

But Machado, who attributes the manifestation to her divine healing
from cancer, is untroubled by the conclusions of the analyses carried
out on behalf of “Charisma” magazine. “To me, it doesn’t matter what it
is as long as it’s from God,” she said. “Some people focus on the signs
instead of the fruit. I must continue to share with the world what God
has done in my life and the life of my family.”

In May, John Arnott of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF)
canceled a scheduled four-day appearance by Machado after sending a
sample of the flecks that cascaded from her head on the first night for
testing. A geochemist at the University of Toronto concluded the specks
did not contain any gold or platinum but were some type of plastic
film.

“Charisma” had two samples of Machado’s gold dust analyzed by the U.S.
Geological Survey in Washington, D.C. Both were deemed to be plastic
film with no traces of gold, platinum or silver…”

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/an990910.html#25

 

Why your pastor doesn’t know who you are

The Salvation Army’s Major Scott Nicloy writes..

“….Reasons Christians Commit Spiritual Abuse

For the most part, spiritual abuse is committed by those who sincerely love Jesus, who believe the Bible to be the Word of God and who want to win lost souls for Jesus. Hence, spiritual abuse can often be found, as Ronald Enroth points out, in churches that are doctrinally sound, conservatively Christian, thoroughly Biblical, and zealously maintaining the fundamentals of the Faith. There are several reasons why Christian people of good will and a sincere desire to share Jesus can inflict serious harm and injury upon others in the Name of Jesus. Lack of Empathy. Empathy is the ability to perceive, to understand, to sense, to feel what another person is experiencing. Unfortunately, in witnessing for Jesus many evangelicals talk to people, not with people. It is impossible to truly talk with anyone about Jesus, or anything else for that matter, without knowing the other person. Authentic ministry is based upon knowing a person. There is no point in claiming that Jesus is the answer, when you have not heard the question. A physician who prescribes medicine without knowing the patient is likely to injure the patient. In like manner, evangelicals who try to minister without knowing the sheep in an empathic manner will most likely injure it.

Narcissism

The reason that many Christians have a problem with developing empathy skills is because they have a problem with narcissism. Narcissists are not necessarily bad people. Narcissism simply means that, for whatever reason, the person’s only point of reference in life is himself. For the narcissist only his thoughts, his feelings, his perceptions are fully real. For him the thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of others are less real. In the religious context, narcissists simply assume that what they think God thinks, and what they believe is Bible-based. They take it for granted that any idea that jumps into their heads is from the Holy Spirit and that they are only following the promptings of the Holy Spirit whenever they decide to do anything. The fact that other people may see their words as being less than holy, their motives as being less than pure, and their actions as being hurtful and injurious never occurs to them. When you believe that you are right and righteous, then all that you say and do is right and righteous. Any thought to the contrary never enters the picture…..”

From http://www.micsem.org/pubs/counselor/frames/spiritabuse.htm

‘We know some friends here actually that have had people try to steal and provide fraudulent documents’

What follows is a transcript of a ‘testimony’ given on stage at the Oxford Falls headquarters of Christian Sh*tty Church.

It’s a common practice in ‘group sects’ to compel congregants using emotional pressure techniques to give large amounts of money to the church.

I will add my own remarks (under ‘-Ed’) as we go.

 

Christian Sh*tty Church, Oxford Falls

Sunday June 8, 2008

10am service

http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/08060810am.rm

 

“(Pastor Mark Kelsey)….Each month – Rise and Build month, we hear these great stories each weekend and I love them.

…For me, one of the highlights of the year..and so this morning we’re gonna hear from Phil and Kerryn McPherson who are just unbelievable members of our church.

So give them a hand as they come and share their story. (Applause) Thanks Kerryn.

Kerryn works for us, [Ed- is being paid by the church to give this 'testimony'] actually Kerryn you’ve done quite a few conferences with our events team..but now you run your own business running events. Great. Thanks guys.

(Kerryn McPherson) Oh, hi everyone. It’s really different up here after the… (inaudible). For those who don’t know us, Phil and I have been……I’ll just give you a little…a quick snapshot of who we are.

We’ve both been saved for over 25 years. We’ve been married for 17 years. We’ve been at the church for more than 13 years. We’ve been givers to Rise and Build for more than 11 of those years, and we’ve given approximately $150,000.

And I can’t actually tell you how we’ve done that…other than we’ve just made a commitment..we’ve tried to stick with it…we’ve blown it a number of times..and we’ve rolled it over..even when we’ve said we’re gonna..you know..finish. But we’ve just tried to hang in there I guess.

I guess our greatest blessing is the health and happiness of our three children..who’ve all gone off to their various things.

We have a son who’s 15…Zach who is heading towards Dux this year. [Ed - this happens in many families who have no church affiliation]

Our daughter is 13. She attends…obviously attends school, but she’s also a rhythmic gymnast and she trains more than 30 hours a week…and she is just about to head off to national titles ..in a couple of weeks and she’s hoping to make the Australian team this year. So, don’t know where she quite gets that from either. [Ed - this happens in many families who have no church affiliation]

We have a 9 year old foster daughter..and we’re quite excited as we’re going through the process of adoption of her. (applause) [Ed- this happens in many families who have no church affiliation]

Two years ago we stood here and we talked about our home and the fact that we just finished renovating our dream home, and as we drove out of the driveway that day, I said to Phil, ‘you know, we really didn’t talk anything about business, we didn’t talk about our wages, we didn’t talk about how we made money, all we really talked about was our home, which is beautiful, and the fact that we’ve given,’ so I guess it’s sort of nice to get a second shot at it.

And you know, we were really lucky, Phil, at that point, Phil earned a really great wage. I sort of, did some work for the church, but in the last two years, and I guess it’s good to be able to sort of say what’s just happened in the last two years, even though things haven’t been easy and it hasn’t been all plain-sailing, God has been really faithful. And I’m going to let Phil tell you what’s happened.

(Phil McPherson)

Thanks Kerryn. That was great (applause) Thank you.

Yeah, I guess God had a plan.

We hadn’t done anything in business really compared to what’s happened in the last couple of years.

I guess giving is part of our life. It’s like prayer, it’s like eating, it’s like breathing, it’s part of our Christian walk and it has been for many, many years.

We’ve continued to work, earn salaries and wages and give..and we’ve never really had any investments apart from our mortgage. But we’ve had ..I would like to call a giving portfolio, so we’ve had the areas of the church and areas outside of church where we’ve given.

It’s always been our desire to own businesses and things like that and have investments…but I guess we’ve gone through processes of disappointment…of struggle.

About 3 years ago after spending five years with my boss trying to buy his business from him, he called me in one morning and said, ‘I’ve sold your business unit out of my business. They’ll offer you a job if you’d like to take it, but if you don’t take the job then you’re redundant.’

At that time I felt quite bitter about it, I guess, but it was a blessing in disguise, ’cause it’s moved me along a path..of footsteps that God’s had me to take.

From the bible, I’d like to look at Jacob and Joseph. Jacob saw a woman that he wanted to marry and he worked for 7 years…was given a second-class wife..and then worked for another 7 years ..and he had to (inaudible) his work a lot of time. He had people doing stuff against him. He had that goal and people were giving him substitutes and things like that.

And I guess, with our desire to own businesses…a lot of people get a pride thing where they want to be number one..they want to be the owner and be the person who makes all the decisions.

And God I think through Joseph’s story gave me the revelation that it’s OK to be second-in-charge…2IC..to work for someone.

‘Cause Joseph was 2IC to the Pharoah ..he wasn’t the Pharoah…but he controlled a lot and he made a lot of money.

So, we’ve in our life made a lot of money for some people..and got..I guess..two years ago quite content with earning that salary, paying the mortgage, tithe..and all of our other bills.

But I’ve got a great prayer friend in Les Watson and one morning about two years ago he said to me, he said, we’d been praying for our wives and our children..and he said, ‘what do you really crave, what do you really want?’

I said, ‘I don’t know.’

He said, ‘Yes you do.’

And the truth was, I wanna be debt free. And so we actually prayed that, and following that, just a real miraculous change occurred. People just started talking to us about business. And people were talking to us about their businesses and their ideas..and offer us opportunities.

So we had some serious opportunities we had to consider, and the main one was for me to buy a significant shareholding in the business I was working in.

So we set up a trust company and we went to the bank and borrowed a large amount. [Ed - note how the original large amount of income was in the form of a plain old bank loan] God helped us through that. The bank wanted to play some funny games with us and He gave us some strategies to work out a good result there ..and we ended up buying into that steel business. We import steel. I’m a civil engineer.

And at the same time we invested in a property in Hamilton Island..and we had some other options too that we did put aside. Not every deal that comes your way is – even though it might seem good – is right.

We made sure we got lawyers to look at all contracts, you know, even though God is telling us this is a good thing. [Ed - Really? How? In what part of the bible is God's guidelines for buying into steel businesses? Oh, that's Penty speak. I see] We actually got lawyers and accountants to look at things and really…..we know some friends here actually that have had people try to steal and provide fraudulent documents and stuff like that  [Ed- That's in bold print because that's quite a startling revelation. People connected with Christian Sh*tty Church have tried to 'steal and provide fraudulent documents' to congregation members? Why haven't Fraud Police been brought into investigate? Those are serious criminal matters] and I would hope that doesn’t happen to anyone. So good external advice..good counsel is important.

So we’ve invested in a few businesses. Kerryn decided to start back at work last year…started an event management business. They were offered a second event management business for less money than they were making in profits on an annual basis…so that one will get paid off within about eight months of owning it.

And an in-bound tour operator…which is involved in the tourism industry..which again..at a very good price.

So we’ve invested in four businesses..and we’ve started our own with our friends Les and Mary Watson…we started a publishing company. No experience in publishing at all…I’m sure there are people out there who know indefinitely…infinitely more than us..and we published Mary’s book Antonio’s Seed…which has been really good fun.

It is a good book…it’s the one I get the most excited about …like with our investments…some of them….I guess….sometimes you hear people up here giving testimonies of ten-fold increases, big increases..and I guess sometimes I’ve lacked necessary faith.

I trust God…give little bits all the time..and sometimes doubt whether that sort of stuff is going to come.

Some of those investments we’ve invested in have had ten-fold increases ..and that book I think is going to be a book in every school ..for a text..and it’s going to be a movie and all sorts of things…but ..that’s yet to be seen.

I guess in terms of tying that back to our Rise and Build commitment [Ed - drawing a very long bow]…giving is part of it.

We started off in Rise and Build, giving about $500 a year..and just with a $50 a month ..situation.

And we’ve slowly progressed and grown. At the moment, last two years we’ve given $25,000 ..and to do that ..we give $1000 a month, ’cause then we know we can take that out of our salaries..and we rely on some bonuses and things like that to make up the difference.

This year we’re increasing that by $6000..so that we’ll give $1500 each month…and yeah…no…it’s all just fantastic.

God’s blessing in the business realm has just opened us up to increase that we didn’t necessarily have faith for, but believed in God and just kept plodding along and it’s just been great.

And if we sold everything..we’d be debt-free today.

(Mark Kelsey) Fantastic. That’s awesome. (applause) Thanks guys. Thank you so much.

Give ‘em a big hand.

Sounds easy doesn’t it? Just plod…but the thing is..that’s the deal…(inaudible) love it…11 years..and it adds up. [Ed - No, it was 9 years of hard-going and failing to meet their commitments and remaining in debt, followed by a bank loan and offers of business opportunities. Nothing to do with previous Rise and Build payments whatsoever]  You know, it’s amazing how it does add up. And then also the other issue I love about what they just talked about is that it’s consistent monthly giving. [Ed - again, consistent monthly giving kept them in debt until they got their bank loan and offers of business opportunities. Nothing to do with Rise and Build]

And instead of believing God for a huge amount to come in…just each month putting something away..and the best way to contribute to that..and on top of that you can see miracles take place. [Ed - a bank loan and business opportunities are not 'miracles']

The thing is..the day in-day out consistency of God’s people builds the House of God..[Ed - I think he means the Kingdom of God, which is every believer and follower of Christ, not a physical building] and just amazing..so great job guys..thanks again, that’s awesome.” [Ed - That was a load of bullshit]

Members of ‘group sects’, having heard such a ‘testimony’ are then expected to see the dollar amounts quoted as unofficial benchmarks.

Haven’t given $150,000 to the House of God? Not enough faith my friend.

Many fall for this high-pressure technique, although some tend to recognise it for what it is, usually those unfortunate enough to lose their own house while trying to meet their commitments to such church funds.

The underlying belief behind this ‘give to get’ mentality is a peculiar reading of the Old Testament book of Malachi, where, in the course of instructions to bring a certain type of ‘tithe’ (of food) to the storehouse for distribution and consumption, a promise is given that God will ‘open the windows of Heaven’ to those who have brought the ‘tithe’ (of food).

The phrase ‘opening the windows of Heaven’ is taken by ‘prosperity gospel’ adherents to mean ‘the pouring out of financial riches’ to church donors.

Unfortunately for ‘prosperity gospel’ proponents, the same phrase ‘opening the windows of Heaven’ also occurs in the book of Genesis. The ‘windows of Heaven’ are opened..and God……..does He send down riches? Wealth? Even a Scratchie?

No, God sends down rain, and lots of it, so that Noah had to build an ark.

From Genesis 7 “11In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened. 12And rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Sure the ‘windows of heaven’ are just showering rain when they’re opened.

From Genesis 8.. “the fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.”

Yup, no mistaking it. It’s just rain pouring out of the ‘windows of Heaven’ ..not financial riches.

In Malachi 3

“”Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the LORD of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

Could this also be talking about rain?

The following verses make it clear that it’s talking about rain on crops.

“11I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the Lord of hosts. 12Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the Lord of hosts.”

It’s therefore clear that the Malachi reference is again too, to just wet-as-Melbourne rain. God makes it rain on crops. It’s not a metaphor for ‘financial riches’, and any person who says that it is about money or financial wealth is pulling your leg.

Of course the people at Christian Sh*tty Church are never told these basic bible facts.

They prefer the lie.

And there are at least 150,000 reasons why they keep Phil and Kerryn McPherson believing the lie.

The madness of King John

Senior Pastor John McElroy,

Churchlands Christian Looney Bin, Balcatta WA

Sunday, May 18, 2008.

“..Lord..let me just do this …Lord..I’m just going to ask you ..to confirm among your people whether they should get up and share this morning…by giving them some…..a sign.

Some heat on their face.

Don’t think I’m weird.

God often does this.

He gives you an indication that you’ve just gotta get up and share something.

Lord, would you confirm by this sign that you want your people to share…the goodness of God.”

From http://www.churchlands.org.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zktP9fZRl8E%3d&tabid=175&mid=573

The Hill$ong guide to indoctrinating little kids

The little children want to run to Jesus and run away from Todd Bentley

Todd Bentley ignores a child’s clear wishes not to take part in the Lakeland, Florida ‘revival’.

YWAM assists discrimination victim into men’s shelter

The Sydney Star Observer reports…

“A Rooty Hill Christian mission has dismissed one of its live-in youth workers and sought his deportation to the US last week after discovering he was gay.

Shane Stoner, 22, was just three months into his year-long mission, spreading the word of God to local school children through hip-hop music, when mission management discovered unauthorised text messages on his mobile phone.

“I was called into the office and asked if I was homosexual. I said yes,” Stoner told the Sydney Star Observer.

“I wasn’t bringing men back to the school. Maybe I sent a text message to a friend saying I thought a guy was hot. They gave me a few days to leave, so when no one was around I walked all my bags to the train station.”

He contacted Twenty10 for emergency accommodation and stayed at a men’s shelter in Newtown until Metropolitan Community Church members found someone who could host him.

The Island Breeze Sydney mission at Rooty Hill, part of Youth With A Mission International, is run by husband and wife team Etienne and Tania Pieterse. The Pieterses did not return SSO’s phone calls or emails yesterday.

Stoner’s visa was cancelled last week and his parents, who have accepted his sexual orientation, have secured him a plane ticket home for next week. But Stoner hopes to serve out his mission here and has contacted immigration officials to reinstate his original visa-term.

An African-American adopted by a white family in an all-white church-going community in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Stoner said his faith was important to him and overseas missions to explore one’s faith were common in his community.

He previously completed a mission in 2004-05 at the same Rooty Hill centre and enjoyed the experience.

“When I got back it felt like I was home. But the place had changed owners and they were very strict and regulated everything. Prayer began at 8.30am,” Stoner said.

Youth workers live at the centre and their parents pay for all living expenses.

Stoner sought to make friends with other gay people while in Sydney through MySpace, but found it difficult. He lost many of his friends when he came out in Lancaster County after returning from his first mission.

Reconciling his sexual orientation and faith, Stoner said he now sees the Bible as written by fallible men, but his church friends and family still pray for him.

NSW anti-discrimination laws prohibit dismissal of employees on the basis of sexual orientation, but religious educational institutions are exempt.

However, a three-judge panel of the Administrative Decision Tribunal ruled earlier this month the Wesley Mission could not refuse services to same-sex couples because not all Christian churches believe homosexuality is a sin.

Stoner said he would consider legal action if it enabled him to continue his work in Australia.”

From http://www.ssonet.com.au/display.asp?ArticleID=8427

You well-trained monkeys do realise you’re answering ‘Ay-men’ to a TV screen don’t you?

This report from Associated Press.

“LIMA, Peru —

On a recent Sunday, worshippers gathered in a multiplex theater next to a Starbucks, McDonald’s and T.G.I. Friday’s. The lights dimmed and the Rev. Troy Gramling, a goateed man dressed in jeans, T-shirt and blazer, filled the screen. “God knows your secret, and he loves you anyway,” he said. “Isn’t that cool?” A few people answered, “Amen,” as if Mr. Gramling was there preaching, instead of 2,650 miles away in Cooper City, Fla.

While missionaries have long carried their message overseas, a new generation of churches is spreading a strain of evangelical Christianity with worship services as slickly packaged as any U.S. franchise. Rather than seeking converts to a mainstream denomination, these independent churches are forming global organizations anchored by a single leader. Many far-flung congregants watch their pastor via satellite or DVD each week; the services abroad are designed to replicate Sundays at the home church.

Mr. Gramling’s 8,000-member Flamingo Road Church is based in Broward County, Fla., where he records his sermons on DVD for screenings here, as well as at three branches in South Florida. Each church uses the same distinctive music, banners and logo — a white cube bisected by a black curving road. Mr. Gramling says he tried to copy the success of Starbucks by assembling a creative team to hone “the look, the feel, the branding idea, of what Flamingo Road is.” Like Starbucks, Mr. Gramling is thinking big. His goal is 50 churches world-wide, 100,000 members and a $150 million-a-year budget.

At least half a dozen U.S. mega-churches have opened international branches in recent years, and plans are the works for many more. “If Starbucks can start four stores a day, why can’t churches?” says John Bishop, the pastor at Living Hope Church. His 6,000-member congregation in Vancouver, Wash., has 23 satellite churches, including new sites in New Zealand, India, Mexico and the Philippines. The Healing Place Church in Baton Rouge, La., has eight U.S. branches, and in the past year opened churches in Mozambique and Swaziland. Celebration Church in Jacksonville, Fla., with 10,000 members, recently launched branches in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe and Atiquipa, Peru. “We try to keep consistent what we call the DNA of our church, much like a business would,” says Celebration’s pastor, Stovall Weems.

These super churches have the resources to expand overseas, as only mainstream denominations could in the past. With a large base of followers, the biggest independent churches have “as much money as a small denomination, so they’re creating denominations of themselves,” says Dana Robert, co-director of the Center for Global Christianity and Mission at Boston University. Flamingo Road, which is named after the street that fronts the main church, spends about $130,000 a year to run its Lima branch, a fraction of its $7.5 million annual budget. That money, as well as plans to spend $1 million on a live satellite system to link the campuses, are strategic investments for a toehold in a growing overseas market.

“The religious market is saturated in the U.S.,” says Manuel Vasquez, co-author of “Globalizing the Sacred: Religion Across the Americas.” “There is a sense now that you have to go international to expand your reach if you want to be a player.” By 2025, seven of 10 Christians will live in Africa, Latin America and Asia, according to Philip Jenkins, author of “The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity.” In Africa, Christians make up nearly half of the continent’s population, up from about 10 percent in 1900.

A haze of morning fog and pollution cloaked downtown as volunteers on a recent Sunday transformed the Cineplanet Alcazar Theater into a branch of Mr. Gramling’s church. Next to movie posters for “Indiana Jones,” hung an 8-foot banner, “Flamingo Road: One Church, Where You Are.” Greeters passed out glossy church brochures. At a table near the popcorn and drink counter, people browsed Bibles in English and Spanish. There was a sign-up sheet for baptisms during an upcoming visit by Mr. Gramling, and DVD copies of his past sermons.

The Lima church receives weekly FedEx shipments with components of the Flamingo Road brand: Mr. Gramling’s recorded sermons; business cards with the church name, logo and service times; color brochures that advertise sermon themes for the month, and MTV-style documentaries on such topics as lust and temptation for the youth services. Staff members and volunteers get Flamingo Road T-shirts and dog tags.

Inside the theater, about 150 worshippers clapped and swayed to a 10-piece rock band. “God is awesome, he’s so awesome, God is awesome in this place,” they sang. During his sermon, Mr. Gramling compared King David’s struggle to control his desire for the married woman Bathsheba with WWE wrestling.

“Sometimes, you feel like he is here,” church member Fiorella Bernal, 21 years old, says of Mr. Gramling. Ms. Bernal, who used to attend a Baptist church, has never met the pastor. She joined Flamingo Road in January and now sings in the church band. She also attends the weekly Saturday night youth service at a jazz club. Ms. Bernal says she admires Mr. Gramling’s preaching style: “He talks about everything. Nothing’s taboo.”

Anibal Pinedo, 25, a translator, says he’s still not accustomed to watching prerecorded sermons. “I don’t like that he’s not here,” he says. But Mr. Pinedo, who was raised Catholic, says he likes the services, upbeat music and Mr. Gramling’s skill at applying biblical teachings to everyday life. “I feel like he’s my pastor because of his message,” he says. Max Vergara Fowler, 45, another former Catholic, says he started attending a year ago after he heard an ad on the radio. “The Catholic Church is too rigid,” he says. “I feel more comfortable here.”

Some of Mr. Gramling’s sermons fail to translate well. One, about being “tattooed for Christ,” confused congregants who thought the pastor was advocating real tattoos. In another sermon series, called “I’ve Screwed Up,” Mr. Gramling urged congregants to confess their sins anonymously on the church Web site. Some congregants were scandalized, particularly those who were raised in the Catholic Church, where confession is administered by a priest.

After the sermon, Steve Guschov, an American expatriate who oversees the Lima church, collects the offering in a popcorn container. Flamingo Road Church launched its Lima branch nearly two years ago, after several mission trips to Peru by Mr. Gramling. He recruited Mr. Guschov, a 43-year-old lawyer from Boston, who had moved to Lima to work as a missionary. To attract congregants, Mr. Guschov and his Peruvian wife, Dorcas, offered free movie tickets and sandwich coupons to first-time visitors. They advertised on a rock radio station and posted fliers and brochures outside English language classes. Today, 100 people attend the 9 a.m.  Spanish-language service, which has a live translator, and 200 people worship at the 10:30 a.m. English service. The church attracts mostly young, middle-class Peruvians, many of them former Catholics.

A charismatic, self-taught preacher from Paragould, Ark., Mr. Gramling, 41, joined Flamingo Road’s staff as an assistant pastor in 2000. Two years later, he took over the church, which is loosely affiliated with the Baptists. Mr. Gramling says he read articles about Starbucks’s branding strategy in the Harvard Business Review. He used a “coffee for Christ” campaign to recruit new members by giving away $10 Starbucks gift cards one Easter. Since 2002, his flock has swelled four-fold.

Flamingo Road and other fledgling church chains compete with mainstream denominations and local churches. Critics say franchise churches are culturally homogenous and sap local congregations, just as Wal-Mart and other big retailers squash local competitors. “The downside of McDonaldization is that everything is the same, everything is predictable,” says Kurt Fredrickson of Fuller Theological Seminary. “When you’re franchised, it becomes more difficult for the local flavor to come through.”
Mr. Bishop, of Living Hope Church, says he is expanding abroad in part because of demand: Christians in other countries invite him to launch Living Hope churches. “It’s like they’re asking us, ’Can we please sell Nikes in our country?”’ Mr. Bishop says. “They just love the brand.”

Church franchising isn’t unique to Americans. Protestant congregations in Nigeria have sites in Europe and the U.S. The Yoido Full Gospel Church of South Korea has more than 100 campuses around the world and 830,000 followers. Hillsong, an evangelical church in Sydney, Australia, has churches in London, Kiev, Ukraine, and Cape Town.

Flamingo Road Church leaders hope Lima will be a hub for expanding throughout Peru and neighboring countries. The church is preparing to start prayer services in Iquitos, a city in the middle of Peru’s rainforest, and is seeking sites in Cusco, Peru, and Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Recently, the Guschovs flew to Iquitos to scout locations and enlist local Christian leaders to join Flamingo Road. Iquitos, a noisy grid of corrugated tin-roofed buildings swarmed by motorcycle rickshaws, has attracted missionaries since Jesuit priests arrived in the 1500s. Today, the city draws Baptists and other mainstream denominations seeking to convert indigenous tribes along the Amazon. During a visit this month with members of the Yagua tribe, Mr. Guschov brought cooking oil, rice, sugar and soap. He prayed with 15 residents of a thatch-roofed village, which is built on the banks of an Amazon River tributary.

Mr. Guschov later met with local Christian leaders to float the idea of a Flamingo Road franchise. Many agreed English-language services would attract young Peruvians, especially those seeking jobs in tourism. Others were skeptical. Alex Litarolo Suarez, 30, who works as a translator for American missionaries, asked Mr. Guschov if he planned to feed off local congregations. “We don’t see ourselves as competition, but other churches do look at it that way, unfortunately,” Mr. Guschov said. “We’re not trying to rob members from other churches.”

After the meeting, Mr. Guschov inspected a hotel conference room that overlooked the Amazon. There was a big screen to show a sermon, and room for 150 chairs. It would do for now. “When it comes to Flamingo Road, because of the brand, we need large campuses,” Mr. Gramling says. “We’re not going to be satisfied with a campus running at 300.”

On Sunday, Mr. Gramling preached to thousands at his Cooper City, Fla., headquarters, a 28,000-square-foot building outfitted with three 15-foot high movie screens and a 30,000-watt sound system. In his sermon, he encouraged people to tithe, saying God would bless them. Afterward, in the main church lobby, congregants lined up for free Starbucks coffee.”

From http://www.norwichbulletin.com/lifestyles/spirituality/x1743973211/Charismatic-pastors-grow-new-flocks-overseas

‘Christian Sh*tty Church Whitehorse – The Dirty Facts’

One man’s unfortunate encounter with an exploitative Christian Sh*tty Church.

http://www.liquidpixel.biz/

(Read from the bottom post on the page – the first post on the blog)

‘We stand by him. People invest money in all kinds of things, and sometimes they get hurt. That’s part of life.’

Those are the words of Pastor Karl Krahmer of the Harbour Life Community Church in Ulladulla, NSW, which, befitting its name, is ‘harbouring’ accountant Blake Richards.

The Harbour Life church is affliated with ‘Australian Christian Churches’ (Assemblies of God) of which Hill$ong’s Pastor Brian Houston is National President.

In an unprecedented move, the National Institute of Accountants has suspended Mr. Richards as an investigation continues into allegations of fraud.

Thankfully, unlike Pastor Krahmer, one can look to a non-Pentecostal church for a more common-sense summary of the situation.

“People trusted Blake, and I think he has betrayed that trust,” says the Reverend Geoff Deutscher, the pastor of the Anglican parish of Ulladulla. “But he doesn’t seem to have any sense of reality or comprehension of the pain that he has caused people. It’s like he’s in some fantasy world.”

The full article (recommended reading) on Mr. Richards and his various church connections is here.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/with-god-on-his-side/2008/06/08/1212863458337.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

 

Awww heck…

A sidelight to the arrest of NSW Crime Commission Assistant Director Mark Standen and his alleged involvement with food importer Bill Jalalaty has been the reporting of a connection with jailed Hill$ong fraudster Robert John Orehek.

For those who don’t remember the Orehek saga from November 2007…

“A conman who fleeced millions of dollars from members of the Pentecostal Hillsong Church has been jailed for 18 months for fraud.

Robert John Orehek, 45, persuaded members of the church to invest heavily in several of his property development companies and continued to take their money when he knew his building projects were in serious trouble because he wanted to maintain his lavish lifestyle, the Downing Centre District Court heard today.

Orehek pleaded guilty to two counts of misappropriating funds and asked for another offence to be taken into account.

He also pleaded guilty to breeching corporations law by not informing investors of details of their investments – failing to give details to 41 investors of the $4.6 million worth of investments.

The investors included a pastor of the church and quadriplegic. Orehek was expelled from the church and banned from setting foot on any Hillsong premises after his conduct became known……..

…….”Orehek felt that he was invincible and other people in the church though they were invincible,” Judge Bennett said.

“With the power of God they were able to trust each other implicitly.”

Orehek lived a “lavish” lifestyle, owning a red Ferrari, a Porsche, and a Ducati.

When his 18-month non-parole period expires, Orehek will be released on a $5,000 bond to be of good behaviour for two years and four months.”

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22796824-5001021,00.html

Now the Standen case has seen Orehek’s name pop up in the news again.

“Standen, an assistant director of the NSW Crime Commission, and Jalalaty, a Blacktown food importer, were allegedly given money by a Dutch drug syndicate in 2006.

Police allege the payment was to create a legitimate import history behind which pseudoephedrine could be smuggled into the country hidden in rice shipments.

Jalalaty allegedly decided to invest some of it first.

Enter Robert Orehek, an associate of Jalalaty’s who introduced him to another associate, Mr Way.

Mr Way, whose company is called Intuitive Brilliance, said yesterday he had made money through US commodities broker Dominic Guardino.

Mr Guardino had recommended a businessman living in the Bahamas who wanted investors to put money into his $500 million pool to deal in unsecured bank debts, a high risk investment “promising” returns of 15 per cent per month.

Mr Way said Jalalaty invested around $625,000 in the deal and was promised $1.7 million back.

But the money disappeared along with the Caribbean businessman, who none of them had met.”

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23822924-5001021,00.html

Of course the case against Mr. Standen is yet to be heard by the courts and he is therefore presumed innocent, but it’s safe at this stage to make some observations about Orehek.

The reporting of Orehek’s sentencing last year conveyed the impression that Orehek was more victim that perpetrator, a misguided soul, easily lead by the Hill$ong prosperity doctrine that you can have it all in life, so you can drop some breadcrumbs from the banquet table to the poor unfortunate souls in this world who don’t have access to Brian and Bobbie’s ‘resources’.

But it now appears that Judge Bennett and the reporters covering the case may have been some of Orehek’s most recent fraud victims; buying the lie that Orehek was a wide-eyed innocent lamb, lead astray by the Hill$ong wolves.

Razor and lesbianism privileges restored in Queensland. Mercy Ministries staff to make their own beds and wash their own cars

“Mercy Ministries Closing Sunshine Coast Home:

Since its opening [in] 2001, Mercy Ministries Australia has existed solely to help young women in trouble gain control over their lives and to restore their hope for the future.  Every activity at Mercy Ministries Australia is focused solely on these objectives.  After careful consideration, the Board of Directors of Mercy Ministries Australia has made the decision to close its Sunshine Coast home due to strategic and resourcing issues.  The effective closure will take place at the end of July 2008.  The majority of the young women receiving care in the home will be able to graduate prior to the closing.  The other residents will have the opportunity to complete the program in the Mercy Ministries Sydney home.  Our Sydney home continues to serve young women from across Australia.  We greatly appreciate the ongoing support and prayers of our donors and friends.  Their contributions are vital to sustaining all aspects of the Mercy Ministries program in seeing lives transformed and hope restored.”

From http://www.mercyministries.com.au/pages/default.asp?pid=95

The above media release is somewhat surprising on a number of fronts.

The mantra of Penty/AOG circles is expand and increase.

The only recent high-profile charismatic cutback I’m aware of is the staff lay-offs at Colorado’s New Life Church because of the loss of donations after the Ted Haggard scandal broke.

Things must be really bad though at Mercy Ministries if they’ve had to abandon one of their detention centres homes near the end of their programs. Some businessmen with deep pockets are involved in Mercy Ministries (aren’t people connected with Hill$ong meant to be prosperous? Blessed to be a blessing? etc) so you’d think they’d be able to wear a short-term loss for the sake of the women who are yet to complete a few weeks of ‘treatment’. And sending someone from the Sunshine Coast of Queensland to Sydney, NSW is not the same as referring someone to the GP down the road. This smacks of desperation.

Presuming they own the home on the Sunshine Coast, any sale of that facility would provide a few hundred thousand dollars for the rest of Mercy Ministries operations, but with sponsors pulling out and awareness increasing about Mercy’s methods, it’s unlikely that a few 20 cent pieces in plastic boxes in Gloria Jeans outlets is going to keep them up and running in the medium to long term.

The Sydney Morning Herald reports….

“Mercy Ministries, the Gloria Jeans and Hillsong-supported religious program under investigation for its controversial use of exorcism to treat mental illness, has announced its Queensland home will close.

A Herald investigation in March revealed that young women who entered the program were forced to sign over their Centrelink benefits and were virtually cut off from the outside world without medical or psychological treatment.

Since then more than a dozen young women have come forward to make complaints to various government bodies, including the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission and the Queensland Office of Fair Trading.

Various businesses listed by Mercy Ministries as sponsors have abandoned the organisation and it appears the resulting drop in support has forced the closure of one of its two houses. The Sydney house at Glenhaven remains open for business.

In a statement posted on its website this week, Mercy Ministries said: “After careful consideration, the board of directors of Mercy Ministries Australia has made the decision to close its Sunshine Coast home due to strategic and resourcing issues. The effective closure will take place at the end of July 2008.”

The executive director of Mercy Ministries, Mark Caldwell, did not return the Herald’s calls, so it is unclear what the future holds for the organisation, or whether it will go ahead with plans to open houses in other cities.”

From http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/mercy-ministries-to-close-home/2008/06/06/1212259115375.html

Unknown unknowns

A local ‘Revival’ church was handing out tracts to shoppers in Perth’s Murray St Mall on Thursday afternoon of this week.

They’d also set up a display of Time Magazine covers, featuring faces of various world figures including Iran’s Armadinejad (and even more menacing picture of the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams) interspersed with cheery photos of war, ..drought…nuclear holocaust etc.

I didn’t get a conversation when handed my tract, so I poked around for awhile and after standing at the ‘annihilation wall’ of Time covers for a bit, a Revival sect member dutifully struck up a conversation.

Not 30 seconds went by before the killer questions popped out.

‘Are you saved?’

‘Yes’

‘Are you baptised in the Holy Spirit?’

‘If you mean ..am I justified before God through my faith in Christ alone and now live by the Spirit’s leading, then …yes.’

‘But do you speak in tongues’?

‘No’.

So, having beautifully set myself up as easy prey; lips-salivating, they launched into their quest to save me by getting me to speak in ‘tongues’.

I pointed out that the bible is clear that the ‘tongues’ were actual languages that were understood by others in their own language, and were not jibberish, as practised by Penty churches today.

They countered that 1 Corinthians talks about ‘unknown tongues’.

I asked them to get me a bible, a King James Version, and sure enough there it was in plain text.

From 1 cor 14

Verse 2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Verse 4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Verse 13: Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 
Verse 14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Open and shut case. The word ‘unknown’ is even in italics. Must be important. No wonder these Pentys are so keen on it.

But at the time, I had a gut feeling that something was amiss but couldn’t put my finger on it, and so said I prefer to deal with the original texts rather than the KJV.

They seemed to buy that argument, which surprised me…and I stuck to my guns that ‘tongues’ were known languages, rather than unknown.

Anyway, I do some checking today, and the reason why ‘unknown’ is in italics in the KJV, is not for emphasis, but because the word ‘unknown’ is not in the greek texts. It was added in by the KJV translators.

The miracle of Pentecost was that people heard scriptural truths in their own languages, so they could be easily understood.

I don’t agree with everything John McArthur writes, but he puts the tongues thing nicely into context.

“1. THE INFILTRATION OF CORINTH INTO THE CHURCH

The Corinthian church had allowed the entire world system in which they existed to infiltrate their assembly. For example, they were emphasizing human philosophies (chapters 1-4), they had a hero worship cult (chapter 3), they were involved in terrible, gross, sexual immorality (chapters 5-6), they were suing each other in court (chapter 6), they had misevaluated their home and marriage relationships (chapter 7), they were confused about pagan feasts, idolatry, and things offered to idols (chapters 8-10), they had relinquished the proper place of women in the church (chapter 11), they had misunderstood the whole dimension of spiritual gifts (chapter 12), and they had lost hold of the one great thing–love (chapter 13).

You see, they had let the satanic system that existed in their society infiltrate the church. And with it came the pagan religious practices–with all of the ecstasies, eroticisms, and sensualities. The Corinthians accepted it all, creating a confused amalgamation of truth and error.

2. THE INVOLVEMENT OF TONGUES IN PAGANISM

a. The Ecstasy of the Greco-Roman World

At the time of the Corinthian church, the Greco-Roman world had a multitude of gods. In their worship of these gods, it was very common for a person to go into ecstasy, which literally means “to go out of oneself.” They would go into an unconscious state where all kinds of psychic phenomena would occur. They believed that when they were in an ecstatic trance, they actually left their body, ascended into space, connected up to whatever deity they were worshiping, and would begin to commune with that deity. Once they began to commune with that deity, they would begin to speak the language of the gods. This was a very common practice in their culture. In fact, the term used in 1 Corinthians to refer to speaking in tongues (glossais lalein) was not invented by Bible writers. It was a term used commonly in the Greco-Roman culture to speak of the pagan language of the gods which occurred while the speaker was in an ecstatic trance. By the way, this language of the gods was always gibberish.

b. The Eros of the Greek World

The Greeks had a word for this ecstatic religious experience. It was the word eros. Sometimes translated as sensual love, the word eros had a broader meaning. It meant “the desire for the sensual,” or “the desire for the erotic,” or “the desire for ecstasy,” or “the desire for the ultimate experience or feeling.” Their religion, then, was an erotic, sensual, ecstatic religion– designed to be felt. In fact, when people went to their various temples to worship, they would actually enter into orgies with the temple priestesses. So the erotic, sexual, sensual, ecstatic religion was all rolled into one big ball along with the gibberish of divine utterances. And these mystery religions, which had been spawned in Babylon, had found their way into the Corinthian society…and the church.”

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1871.htm

Back to the mall, and the conversation was starting to get a bit testy when a younger sect member joined in, and I asked why his fellow sect members (the ’sect’ word didn’t go down too well BTW)  were asking people about the gift of tongues, and not whether they had the gift of hospitality. Interestingly, the younger sect member knew that the bible mentioned the gift of hospitality (…administration etc) but this was news to the older dude.

The older guy also had to ask what the words ‘parody’ and ’sovereign’ meant. (I suggested their talking in jibberish was a parody of Pentecost…and I disagreed with their view that man was now leading the world to destruction because that implied that man can over-ride God’s sovereign will)

In the end, the younger dude got shitty with me because I kept interrupting his bullshit…so I stood mute for awhile…waited for a minute until he finished and then said nothing.

After an awkward silence, I asked when, and for how long I was allowed to speak under his sect’s conversation rules.

He put his hand forward to shake mine. I kept my arms folded, and he started going on about ‘wow…if you could see how arrogant you look..man.’

I asked again, ‘am I allowed to speak now under your rules? I’m confused’.

He shook his head and wandered off with his older mate.

The most memorable comment he made though was that I’d gone there to ‘put them out of business’.

These people really are paranoid (as if the Time Magazine covers of death and destruction wasn’t enough of a giveaway about their paranoia) and think that if you disagree with them, that you’re trying to destroy them.

Well, they’re free to get together and do what they like, even go bowling.

But they shouldn’t come into the middle of town outside Myer and tell porkies and expect everyone to fall down at their feet.

Phil Baker’s Revenue Church brings the Mercy Ministries House of Horrors to WA

Like most charismatic churches, Phil Baker’s Riverview Revenue Church in Perth has always been fairly clueless in its approach to people dealing with emotional/psychological issues.

I can reveal here that the stand-up comedy show Gay Conversion School Drop Out http://www.anthonymenchetti.com/gayconversionschooldropout.html is based on a program called ‘Dominion’ run about 10 years ago out of Revenue Church. I know. I was part of the same ‘conversion school’ at Revenue. I remember Anthony at one meeting, when asked what he did for a living, he replied deadpan, “I’m a comedian”.

Had to be there I ’spose.

Now, after all the kafuffle about the abusive tactics employed by former jail athletics coach Nancy Alcorn at her worldwide stalags-for-girls called Mercy Ministries (as detailed in Mercy Ministries’ own handbook guide to treating grown women like four-year-olds http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/mercy-ministries-handboo/ we find out that Mercy Ministries is setting up shop in Perth.

“As you drive up the long winding driveway through trees,paddocks and past sheep and horses, you suddenly see the most beautiful homestead with a lake and landscaped gardens. You feel like you are in a Monet painting but at the same time it feels as if you have come home’. It sounds like a stately homestead in the north of England but it’s much closer to home; nestled in amongst the Perth Hills. Located at Mt Helena about 25 to 30 minutes drive from the centre of town is the site for our new Mercy Ministries home in Western Australia.”

http://www.mercyministries.com.au/resource/mwireF2.pdf

(continued:…)

“Elaine [Fraser] is the Advocate Coordinator for WA and assists Heather Baker [wife of pastor Phil Baker] at Riverview church. She tells the story leading up to the purchase of the home: ‘The previous owners had a vision for the property which was to create a place of healing and reflection, as well as serve as their family home.The property was built in 1995 and has been used as a church meeting venue and also as a retreat for pastors and leaders. The property had been on the market for several months and the owners felt that they wanted to sell it to someone who would carry on their vision. They had several offers but felt that the “right person” had not come along. That was until Heather came to them with the vision of Mercy Ministries. Deb Malcolm [Advocacy Manager] was also with Heather the first time she saw the property and they both felt God’s presence and peace in the house; even before they entered the door’….”

But it’s not just Revenue Church that’s financially backing Mercy Ministries in Perth.

(continued:)…”When the call went out to WA churches to help us to finance a home, the finance came in very quickly. The churches have a very cooperative culture mainly due to the“Church Together’ network.

Sunset Coast along with Riverview are probably the most represented in our committees, however, we have representatives from Church of Christ, Baptist and many other churches. Several churches in Perth have committed themselves to service the loan required to purchase the property. Also individuals have pledged monthly amounts……..We want WA to be the leading edge! We are so excited about the possibilities! We see us running a world class facility which is supported by all churches in WA. We see a school program aiding in prevention and raising awareness of issues that face young women…..”

A school program? Is the Education Department in Western Australia really going to allow people with zero qualifications in mental or adolescent health (including any Mickey Mouse Christian bible college ‘qualifications’ they may have) to have access to our kids?

Probably, because some of the more zany Pente churches around have been allowed to get their ‘chaplains’ into schools.

Of course Phil ‘The Philosopher’ Baker doesn’t have the balls to actually call out his own wife on this because he’s probably the most clueless one in Revenue Church about mental health care needs.

The only ‘world-class’ Mercy Ministries facility that will be established at Mt. Helena will be world class in its ineptitude.

Here’s a Perth Mercy Ministries survivor in her own words.

http://www.mytalk.com.au/aspx/pages/mediaplayer.aspx?t=audio&w=7637

Come to Hill$ong and see an increase in apostrophes in your life

For the record, it should read ‘Your friends’.

Somehow though I don’t think Brian and Bobbie sat down together and penned this letter to the Hill$ong newbies.

While I’m sure some will see this as nit-picking, it’s indicative of how ‘contemporary’ church groups come unstuck when they try and mimic professionalism from ‘the real world’ and fail.

The grammatical errors in the letter should have been picked up in the office before going out and if it missed that basic check then certainly  it should have been corrected after first being distributed (eg. ‘Hey! There’s a typo in the welcome letter’)

See? It’s not that hard.