To judge him the way you do is unfair without knowing who he is.

mo116 said
Pastor Scott is a good man and loves god with all his heart

We are talking about his message – not him as a person. You are right we don’t know him and are not in a position to discus his personality or his heart. I don’t doubt that he loves God – but I am in no doubt that his message about tithing is 100% wrong. When your pastor puts his message out in the public domain he opens it up to criticism and we are actually being very biblical in checking his message out against biblical teaching and shining the light of truth on his false message.

Your pastor is the one who claims that:

“When you start tithing, your sickness and disease will go away.”

that is nothing short of false preaching – it is not found in the bible and actual life experience will tell you that it is wrong – how many tither’s do you know who have died from cancer and other diseases?

There is a danger in the Russ Kelly quote – he uses the word “all” about another type of Christian giving. There really are times for some Christians when they ought not lower their standard of living further for a variety of reasons, and really ought not to be sacrificing more – unless God has led them to. Rather, they ought to be on the receiving end for a time. Or resting. And at another time, they may well be the ones giving generously, having compassion for others in difficult situations.

So I’m wary even of burdening believers with NT ’should’s’ applying to all situations, as these can also become harmful, legalistic, manipulative or bring guilt/condemnation on people.

The last thing we need is people abandoning tithing, but still living under a burden of guilt, robbing them of the joy of giving from the heart under grace, or having an alternative doctrine coercing them.

I imagine that Russ Kelly would not mean to burden poor Christian’s like that! He no doubt wanted to assure people that abandoning the false teaching re tithing is not abandoning the concept of NT giving, and I totally agree.

The Melchizidech example is not something that constitutes that tithing is an obligatory practice ’for Christians.

See: http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/chapter2.html (Please read: “The Real Issue” Section).

Personally, I agree that a Christian is free to tithe (give ten-percent) as a matter of conviction or as God has purposed on his heart.

A Christian is also free as a matter of conscience to abstain or to eat certain foods; to keep or not to keep certain days as Holy; to be circumcised or not to be circumcised … as outlined in Romans 14.

This is a matter of Christian liberty! For this we should NOT JUDGE how a Christian practices his/her faith.

There is no mandate to tithe in the New Testament, giving is to be as God has purposed on one’s own heart – yet there is a mandate to give proportionally, but there is no set percentage mandated … this (%age) is left to the individual to decide or to follow his own heart.

I do not judge a person for ‘tithing’…

However, I will speak out when a layperson or teacher attempts to encumber another a believer with their own conviction or by teaching based upon poor hermeneutics and exegesis – particularly when there are so many mega-church pastors living large and excessively at the expense of those who cannot afford to and have been manipulated into tithing … i.e. They are not taught that it is a matter of individual conscience – rather they are taught that they are obligated to from the scriptures – and worse they are robbing God/cursed etc if they do not live up to a standard that they cannot áfford’ to fulfill.

I love the way Russ Kelly sums it up:

“New Covenant giving is: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, regular and motivated by love for God, fellow Christians and lost souls. Do not burden or curse God’s poor who struggle to feed and shelter their family. Although there is no set percentage for Christians to give, all should give sacrificially or lower your standards of living in order to further the reach of the Gospel”.

Of course we all need to be comfortable in our conscience regarding this matter, so those who believe they ought to tithe should do so. But for anyone who wants to examine the issue without being caught up in anger or anti-church arguments, this is the book. It also gives a comprehensive history of tithing within the church over the centuries, which I found fascinating for its own sake.

He also looks at alternative to tithing when recognising the need for organised churches to raise funds – he doesn’t negate this issue. His examination of the concept of Jubilee and its fulfilment in Jesus is also worth consideration.

MT – I think you are FL, and will do so until you inform me otherwise. FL believes in tithing from an Abrahamic perspective rather than a legal one. This book is one that should sit on the shelf of any church leader or anyone formulating church policy regarding tithing – even if they disagree with it.

So you are saying Levi was a farmer when he tithed in Abraham? I think part of the argument is that Abraham’s tithe wasn’t farm produce, yet Levi tithed in him, so why not everyone else who was in Abraham, as Christ the Seed clearly was?

But read the following for a sec:

Heb7:24-26
…but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.”

So If Christ, our King High Priest of Peace & Righteousness, meets our needs, why should we tithe if he’s promised that through His life in us, we are already blessed before we even give?

It only demonstrates that we should give cheerfully, not so that we can do something ‘holy’. What makes our actions ‘holy’ is the one that lives in us that makes this vessel ‘holy’.

I was going to say a question similar to LF, but LF had already asked it.

MT said:
“And who are they to judge others’ liberty in refusing to tithe?”

Because this act is CALLED a tithe by those that do so, this indicates that they cannot see what has been accomplished through Christ, otherwise they’d just give cheerfully and not fight to defend the tithe so fiercely.

So by the way you have written, are you saying that Jesus IS Melchizedek? I would say He’s greater then Melchidizedek because He is “exalted above the heavens” (vs 26). They are of the same order (meaning position or rank), but the characteristics and person of Christ is greater still.

The scripture could also say this:

(vs 27)
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day or collect tithes…

Why can I do this? Unlike the other high priests, Jesus remains ALIVE. They needed the tithe to feed themselves. Without food, they die. Christ is still alive and doesn’t need a tithe. They were imperfect human beings but Christ was perfect therefore he needed to offer no sacrifice on His behalf to be pure and blameless!

And Christ never tithed through Abraham to Melchizedek. He was a carpenter. Only farmers tithed. He was exempt!

It was more that Melchizedek saw the Promised One in Abraham and WANTED to bless him and dine with him. Abram tithed. So what? The BLESSING came before the tithe and would therefore be greater than the tithe.

Gen 14:18-20
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.”
Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

BTW. MT being FL crossed my mind, but I don’t want to believe it…