“……This is the reality of what Bruce Hills has had to go walk through. I have had to wrestle with forgiving others for what has been done to me.
Six months ago, late September 2008, I had what would be regarded as a mild, mild …meltdown/breakdown.
Emotionally, I just imploded and I just needed some time out. I was so tired and bereft inside.
And during that time, I had about eight weeks off. The eldership and the board of our church were having meetings together and talking about the future.
And when I was about to re-enter and to come back into Sunday ministry, they called me in to have a meeting and they said, ‘listen, in your absence we’ve been thinking about it, and we believe that even though you’ve got integrity and your ethics are good and you’re ministry is great, we believe that we’d rather have more of a CEO-type leader than you. We would like you to resign.
Now, at the time because I was absolutely emotionally undone, I had no fight in me and I couldn’t take them on, and I just said, ‘look, OK, I’m gonna move on.’
That began to start a series of things inside of me where you start to get a bit upset.
I recovered quite quickly after that and I had to really wrestle with this stuff.
So what I’m trying to say today is, this is not just a sermon, this is the reality of my life, forgiving our debtors.
I am not talking to you about just some principle in scripture. I have had to walk this. Because there were some nights where I’m just lying in bed at night, really angry about what these people had done..and just stewing over it and it was getting into my heart until one day I had to get to a point where I said ‘God, I forgive them for what they’ve done. I release them from what they’ve done. I give that into your hands. I choose to go on. I choose to let go. I choose to become what you want me to be’.
And I was liberated. I felt such freedom. It took a while for my thought life to catch up. It took a while for my feelings to catch up, but the choice was made.” – Bruce Hills, Legana Christian Church Tasmania, 2009 Refresh Easter Convention.
So sad. The journey through betrayal is difficult. He is another victim of the religious “success” machine. And his wife and children? I can only imagine their anger and disappointment.
A CEo rater than a pastor – Annd God has made some Prophets an Teachers and some CEO’s – hang on…no he didnt!
fat fingers small key boards – hate both
I wonder how Jesus feels, seeing his Church being systematically replaced by a commercially-run business.
This shows how dangerous it can be for non-five-fold-ministry boards to have so much power over decision making processes in local churches, and the ability to quash and veto a leader’s vision. This wasn’t a dictatorial CEO overpowering the eldership of a church, this was an eldership diminishing the role of a Senior Pastor.
Perhaps what these people need is the laying on of hands with some five-fold ministry of a different kind!
If an ‘eldership’ wanted a ‘CEO’ style leader, then I have to wonder why they are called ‘eldership’. You’d have to wonder if they had the maturity required to really act as elders.
At least a board usually has a chairman or CEO type there.
I’m used to the pastor wanting to get rid of the elders and replace them with a board – not the eldership wanting to replace the pastor with a CEO!
I’d say that if the guy is called to be a pastor, then he will be much happier having left, and not having to act like a CEO. His choice to forgive, and his honesty with the struggle for his feelings to catch up is commendable; but I expect in the long run he’ll see it as a good thing to have moved on, if he is able to function pastorally in his next role.
Let’s not even get started on ‘five-fold’. What a Pandora’s box.
As for pastor’s suffering emotionally, this really recalls to me instances of burn out that I’ve seen over the years for some involved in pastoral ministry. Unfortunately, these individuals don’t always get the support or patience they need from the rest of the leadership team. They have often given more than most people realise, but when it comes to their time to receive love and rest, there just isn’t room for that in the system. Often they are left to cope on their own, at a time their own resources, whether financial, physical or emotional, are at their lowest. So those most closely involved with the ministry/service within the church organisation can become those most hurt and least supported.
At these times, their own relationship with God and their ultimate maturity either grows and deepens, or else collapses, I think.
Burnout, meltdown and breakdown are a normal part of life – but one that our society is increasingly uncomfortable with. I think this church is just following society in wanting a strong CEO figure.
CEOs dont burn out they always put their own needs first, whether financial, time, or recreational. They manage their image before managing the organisation. If they do need time away, they will never admit any weakness, they will just negotiate a long break or a study tour.
Our society is more comfortable with this image than with a fallible leader who has the same struggles as us mortals. This church organisation is just following the same trend.
I would rather have a leader who had some struggles and was honest about them. Maturity comes from walking in the valleys as well as the heights.
“CEOs dont burn out they always put their own needs first, whether financial, time, or recreational. They manage their image before managing the organisation.”
I’ve certainly experienced that one in the work place!
I guess people prefer the marketing to the reality. Even when confronted with reality, they often don’t want to believe it.
I’m with you, wazza.
I don’t think you can categorise all CEO’s in the same way. There’s good and bad in all arenas. Being a CEO isn’t being the devil. There are some great, caring, people-loving CEO’s.
Being a CEO type Christian leader could have its merits, as long as the person in leadership has a strong handle on God’s purposes for the Church. There are some aspects of Church ministry which require management skills, and leadership skills. What Paul called ruling and governments. And being a CEO isn’t necessarily indicative of being materialistic or commercial. It could be that a person’s best gifting is in the area of leading a successful business, or even overseeing a Missions or Service Organisation. Tim Costello is a CEO, for instance.
However, it’s clear that some Christians struggle with the concept of weakness in leaders. Paul obviously didn’t. He said he rejoices in his weaknesses, then God’s strength is made greater. A Pastor who is transparent enough to admit to having moments of physical or emotional weakness is at least being honest, and should be appreciated, as long as the weakness isn’t outworked through sin. It’s God’s grace which puts over a Pastor anyway, no personal ability.
I don’t categorise them all in the same way. I’ve always worked in the private sector, for company directors or CEO’s. I’ve worked for 2 CEO’s that fit wazza’s description, one of whom was fantastic when times were good, and one director (Christian, evangelical, elder too), who was verging on sociopathic – maybe he was having a breakdown. Others ranged from great to work for, to so-so. Yes, there’s a full range.
All the more reason to recognise this, and the fact that stress brings out the worst in some people (probably including myself). So, to put one man in charge, in control of a board, rather than mutually submitted to eldership, seems like a recipe for trouble at least 30% of the time to me. That’s a big percentage.
In actual companies, the shareholders can at least vote the CEO out, or agitate without being told they are rebellious or out of God’s will etc.
My view is that the CEO structure may be well suited to missional works of various types, but for a church _family_ – then no, it changes the nature of what God intended the body to be.
I don’t think God had democracy in mind when he set up the Body of Christ, including local churches. I’ve seen some horrible disasters take place when churches are deacon possessed. God calls Pastors to be undershepherd overseers of his flocks, not voting sheep, who need to be led, fed and protected, or you’ll end up with, “I know let’s vote in the big fat growly sheep with the long teeth and floppy tongue, and blood dripping from under his fleece. He obviously has been around, has experience, says he really loves sheep, and wants to invite them all round for lunch, one by one!”
Well, I wouldn’t call a family a democracy. But in a family, those in authority (parents and ‘elders’) love and respect the younger and weaker. They will listen to the rest of the family, and won’t just make unilateral decisions without consultation, depending upon the ages of those affected. They have a loving, caring, serving relationship, not one based on ‘I’m in charge; you should follow my vision; I’ll consider you lesser if you don’t”.
I know there are church leaders who do a wonderful job. But a CEO is quite a different proposition to the family model, I think.
Maybe, but you don’t vote for the daddy to be the daddy or vote the daddy out! Or, thinking about it, maybe that’s the post-modern family structure!
A CEO and a ‘daddy’ are two quite different things. Imagine if fathers behaved like CEO’s in their own household! …Actually, I think I might know one or two.
Relationships based on a corporate hierarchy are just not the same thing as those with a family model.
As for voting the daddy out – well, if you were to find that the ‘daddy’ was an imposter, or that the ‘daddy’ was abusing the family – what then?
Anyway, in this situation above, yes, it’s pretty strange to vote out a pastor to install a CEO. Some people clearly prefer the CEO model. But that doesn’t make it scriptural.
Interestingly, families do grow generationally, and can develop into clans, tribes, ethnic groups, and even nations, where the corporate structure has to be modified to suit the needs of the entire family. So there is the small, mum dad and the kids, family unit, and then there is the far more communal, generational clan, which is still a family, but with far more complex needs. Traditionally these clans have developed with patriarchal or matriarchal governance.
So it follows that there are small, family like church structures, and there are larger, more complex community churches, which are no less family, and have similar demands and requirements, but require a different kind of oversight.
Out of every tribe and tongue…
Major Tom –
Re: Voting in big growly sheep etc. Democracy works well in many Churches and Member based organisations. It is much safer governance structure for the members than Churches that are handed down the family line.
Yes, it may be less expedient to get stuff done than a more autocratic model (due to having to navigate through the politics) – but the safe guards are in place, and Members have rights as well as obligations.
Atleast the Catholics had the good sense to introduce celibacy to prevent Churches and territories from coming inherited family owned businesses! -)
No Church governance model is perfect – and none is mandated in scriptures.
Re: CEO’s & Pastors.
I have worked in the Corporate field most of my adult life.
I agree that a Business man can be a Christian – and after being woooed by the Contemporary Church for 4 years … (it seduced me by justififying my young carnal upwardly mobile double income one kid career driven material lifestyle) … however I now believe that a Pastor CANNOT be a CEO.
The Pastor and CEO have different mindsets. A CEO is focused on driving performance to deliver something … a Pastor is focused on dispensing grace.
Sure there is a need for good stewardship and administraive functions within a Church – but the aims and objectives of the organisation should never be placed above Truth and people – even when it is expedient and pragmatic to so.
Re: Bruce Hills – poor bugger.
But he is not the first and will not be the last to be shafted by Hillsong and like Churches.
I cant think of a surer way to get a “growly sheep” than to set a precedent for chewing people up and then to go out looking for a CEO-type leader.
“My My, CEO, What big eyes you have”
“All the better for strategising and synergising our efforts to create long-term upward outcomes for leading spiritual entities”
Mmmm, nice analogy wazza.
I wonder if this will turn into an example of sowing and reaping in kind.
Or paddling against the tide, rowing and seeping.
or of you are part of a craft group…whatsoever you shall rip – that you also shall sew
the video on you tube has been removed ….
Sausages and Churches. One should not enquire behind the scenes as to how they are made.
LOL!
“the video on you tube has been removed”
Lucky I did the transcript…
Been too busy this week to comment, but needless to say, I found this story to be indicative of a coup. I can just imagine in my head that it took just one of the board members to look enviously at Hillsong’s model of church to get this whole process going. It takes just one person thinking like that.
I guess the problem with this situation is that churches tend to place their ministers on pedestals and make them the “voice” of God, so when a pastor admits that he has personal weaknesses, that is taken as a sign of weakness and that there must be some sort of sin going on in his/her life….
This is only one side of the story. There is no mention of the fact that the board and eldership requested him to take the leave in the first place (the eight weeks off), and consider where He was at. Just remember, the board and eldership was selected by Bruce in the first place. Hand picked by Bruce, and all would have been considered his friends by the general membership. There is more to this than Bruce’s side of the story. It could be God moving in his church, working His purposes.
I am suprised how quick we all can be to judge on so little facts.
Regarding Hillsong – that was after this event. They needed a new senior pastor and I guess, went through a process.
Jas
Jas it’s possible that some of the board members were around before even Bruce started, and 8 weeks off isn’t that long when you think about the years that Bruce had been there without long periods of time off etc. You can’t say that all were considered his friends by the general membership, it’s obvious that discussions with Hillsong started even before Bruce was back from leave (it was a forgone conclusion they asked him to resign when he got back from leave) (Steve Dixon said as much when it was announced to the Church – by letting it slip they had been talking to Hillsong for 6 months). It was a Betrayal to go behind the senior Pastor’s back and decide they needed a CEO – money making machine. Let’s not forget it’s not like Bruce did anything wrong, he wasn’t a pedophile like Frank Houston, or an adultery like Jim Williams, etc etc. Bruce is a very honorable man who was shafted by members of the Board and Hillsong, just like Hillsong shafted the church in Sutherland Shire Sydney exactly the same way. Next they will be asking the members to approve changes to the constitution so Hillsong Sydney will control all the assets, they have already installed their puppets on the board so have control over the board now. Hillsong is what’s wrong with corporate christianity.
“he wasn’t a pedophile like Frank Houston”
Eh?!? Where does that come from….?
Matt – Just to correct your comments. Bruce had annual leave last year for 5 weeks in March, so it is not as if he needed a break. Discussions with Hillsong regarding a new pastor, were not commenced till after Bruce’s resignation. It was announced that Bruce resigned. All the board were his friends. No board members were the same from prior to Bruce. As part of the resignation process, Garden City probably would have consulted with Brian in his role as President of the ACCC. There was no betrayal. A pastor with pastoral and leadership skills, and a wife who loved the people is always appreciated. This CEO thingy is a distraction.
How do you know if they installed puppets on the board. The board hasn’t changed!
It is easy to write comments on this board with no knowledge but hearsay, harder to back up with facts.
As I said before, It could be God moving in his church, working His purposes.
Jas
“All the board were his friends.”
I think the order of friendship superficiality goes…
- Real friends
- Facebook friends
- Acquaintances
- Strangers on the street
- AOG friends
- Sworn enemies
I LOVE BRUCE HILLS…BUT ALL OF YOU HAVE HEARD THE WORDS OF A SPIN DOCTOR…THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO BRUCE…IT WOULD BE BEST FOR BRUCE’S HEALING IF HE ADMITTED THAT HE WAS AT THE END OF HIS RUN OF BURNING OTHER PEOPLE OUT AND SENDING THEM INTO MENTAL BREAKDOWNS…HE WAS AN OPPRESSIVE CEO HIMSLEF…HURT MANY PEOPLE AND WHEN THEY DISAGREED WITH EVIL HE WOULD GET RID OF THEM…I WORKED WITH HIM…YOU SHOULD KNOW THE TRUE STORY…I PRAY BRUCE TRULY CONFRONTS WHAT HE HAS DONE TO OTHERS OVER THE YEARS…AS FOR THE HILLSONG SAGA…TALK ABOUT FRYING PAN TO THE FIRE…
NO NEED TO SHOUT JOHN!
SORRY:)
I will totally support John. I went to Garden City for several years and slowly seen it’s demize from the “leadership” of Bruce Hills. So many faithful leaders were forced out of that church and when i say faithful, i’m talking about leaders that were there in the Reg Kliminok era. I left Garden City due to the over powering bully tactics that Bruce was instilling in the church. And when Bruce had this time off, the church seen so many members return due to the more friendly atmosphere and teaching of Steve Dixon. And from there the elderships seen that the church would be better if Bruce resigned. Good on John for stating the truth and what really happened.
Having heard both sides of this, I would suggest two wrongs don’t make a right.
I have no reason to doubt those who say Bruce was bullying church members. I mean, he was an AOG pastor. Der.
I also have no doubt about Bruce’s description of the series of events that led to the coup against him.
What mystifies me in these situations is why Bruce had to be knifed in such a way that he lost his job at Garden Shitty.
The board could have busted him down from senior pastor to a role more suited to him. I don’t know….Chief Groundsman or senior car park ‘ministry’ attendant.
If someone is in the position of senior pastor, but it turns out they’re not suitable for that position, then give them another job at the church in the office or wherever that doesn’t allow their bully-boy side to come out.
If they can’t accept the reduction in rank and status, then maybe it’s a lesson in humility these pond-scum pastors need to learn, but I absolutely fail to see why they should lose their work at the ‘loving, caring’ church altogether.
In another life situation, I’ve seen a senior executive lose their administrative role because of incompetence, but they were found another position within the company, and they’re going fine now.
There’s an air of shittiness from both sides in the whole Garden Shitty saga (not to mention King Shitty himself coming into takeover. I wonder if His Brianness tithed 10% of the spoils of war) I don’t think anyone at Garden Shitty should be proud of themselves.
My wife and I have been spending more than 10 years in a super-duper unbelievable well organised AOG churchs. And we spent a good 2.5 years at Garden City Church during Ps Bruce time.
Having been to both sides, if ever I can do a selfish trade, we’ll beg profusely to have Ps Bruce with us.
We’ll rather be in a church that is spirit-led than humanly efficient-led setting; afterall that’s why we seek God in the 1st place. That’s why every Sunday we look forward to an atmosphere filled with pure and simplistic love of God, and not some solid-run organisation. We don’t need to have 100% all perfect setting. We don’t need numbers to tally up attendence or financials. Tho’ important, the Godly realm handles these issues differently from the numbers game humans play.
To Ps Bruce, we have no doubt he could have erred in more than 1 ways thru’ the many many years of ministry, we stand by you thru the love & forgiveness of God. All of us are afterall “work-in-progress”. We pray that he is encouraged to walk the difficult path of God’s destiny for him; forgive, grow and give.
To John, we pray you’ll seek forgiveness and lay the ghost-past to rest. Seek freedom in your soul. We encourage you to even look him up and have a good laugh after …
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, ALL YOU SAW WAS THE PULPIT PLATFORM WORK OF HUMAN SHOWMANSHIP…I DON’T LIKE THE HELLSONG GARBAGE EITHER…BUT BRUCE WAS NO DIFFERENT…I FORGAVE BRUCE LONG AGO…IF YOU REALLY KNEW WHAT WENT ON BEHIND THE SCENES AND THE EVIL HE DID YOU WOULDN’T WANT HIM BACK…I HAVE FREEDOM IN MY SOULD AND THAT COMES FORM JESUS CHRIST ALONE…NOT A MAN WHO WAS A WORKPLACE PSYCHOPATH…HIS AIMS WERE THE SAME AS HELLSONG…MAKE NO MISTAKE…HE JUST DIDN’T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT THEY DO…WHICH IS PROBABLY HIS ONLY SAVING GRACE…AS FOR BRUCE…I LOVE HIM AND PRAY FOR HIM…BUT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST MUST CRITIQUE WHAT IS OF GOD AND NOT AND NEITHER BRUCE NOR HELLSONG ARE…THEY ARE ALL POWER AND GLORY MONGERS…I PRAY THAT GOD WILL OPEN YOUR EYES BY HIS SPIRIT TO SEE THE TRUTH…
BTW hAVE you ever woken up from your slumber and delsusions and spoken to the 27 or so ex staff that Bruce put through the ringer and the string of lies he spoke form God’s pulpit about how they deicded God was ‘calling them on’…what a crock…i can tell you i know them and their stories are stories of devastation…personal, psychological and family nightmares…you should not comment when you don’t know what you are talking about…Bruce would ask his staff: ” I want to know if you serve me?” I answered NO…others stayed and towed the line just to keep their jobs…idolatry…
Personally, this is the “wreap what you sow” principle. When Bruce came up from Melbourne, he “replaced” the college principle, youth pastor and creative ministry director. Go Figure. Furthermore, are any of those people he recruited still there??
I’ll admit when I first saw this video, I was upset and sad for him (sucked into the hype once again…) but then I realised hes just dealing with what I have had to deal with. I also dont believe he is the full problem – his wife is more of the problem. She is the power behind the throne, and people inside leadership all know that. I am blown away at how different my current church pastors are compared to those 2. My pastors Wife is lovely, shes always relating to the women (ALL the women, not just the rich ones, but the bogans too) and helping them live biblical Christian lives as wives and women of God. Standing up at the back of the church and leaving as soon as it was over doesn’t really cut it.. I mean come on can anyone who is a normal pleb say they knew Fiona Hills?
I have been burned by this very environment too and at times I have found it very hard to see God through the mess and turmoil within my church life.
I could have so easily walked away from God and live a very bitter and twisted life. Luckily, through the prayer of my devoted family and friends, I have managed to try to heal and start move on for the utter devastation and hurt caused by various incidents.
The cover-up’s under Bruce’s leadership at GCCC will all come undone, oneday. If that day is judgement, I can wait until then.
The pattern of replacing incumbents, especially those in managerial or inflential positions, is not unique to churches. I’ve seen it happen multiple times in the corporate world. It’s what happens at an organisational level. The expectation many people have is for churches to be different from ‘worldly’ organisations, but in this fashion, churches are as worldly as any other place. People are hurt whenever they give loyalty to the organisation through service, and they are replaced later just like an outdated cog in a machine.
The question for anyone who goes through this, I think, is how does this tie in with what Jesus says about leadership and service? Can this way of doing things be reconciled with scripture, and is there any way of being the church where these things lose their power to hurt people? What needs to change in us for this to happen?
This Convo is still going….
In response to groupsects: Bruce was offered to continue his position (Senior Pastor), with less responsibility. This may have been to limit issues such as mentioned by Jenny, I don’t know.
He chose to resign instead. He was not pushed. The board in a loving manner tried to work with him. They were his friends (real friends).
It was a sad journey and I continue to pray for Bruce, who is now preaching at the nearest large church to Garden City.
As an A/G trained Aussie in the US it has concerned me how the American Church has spread it idea of corporatising of the church beyond it’s boundaries. Nearly every church in the US is incorporated and 501[c]3. In doing so it has changed from being a church to becoming a corporation. I saw when the Aussie A/G changed the job description of the Superintendents to becoming Presidents, that it would be harder for pastors to get care from the leaders of the movement.
What they did to Bruce is ’shame on you’ the board is nothing more than corporate executives, instead of elders. Will the Lord bring good out of it, Yes He always does, but that does not relieve the so called board of its obligations to care not only for its member but their shepherd.
It’s time to wake up….we need revival.
“The pattern of replacing incumbents, especially those in managerial or inflential positions, is not unique to churches. I’ve seen it happen multiple times in the corporate world. It’s what happens at an organisational level. The expectation many people have is for churches to be different from ‘worldly’ organisations, but in this fashion, churches are as worldly as any other place. People are hurt whenever they give loyalty to the organisation through service, and they are replaced later just like an outdated cog in a machine”
You hit the nail on the head raving pente. This behaviour disgusts me to the depths of my soul. If we can’t manage any better than the bottom dwelling corporations of this world, why do we even bother? This is not the love of god, its the politics of religion and I will NOT walk back into a church until this sad, sick farce that is called church can come up with something worth offering.
Jas 4 Aug, If the board were his real friends and he theirs – then why did he recommend that one of them be sacked (just before his own demise) all because the person didn’t agree with the direction Bruce was taking in possible relocation of the church to Redland Bay – the person was sacked by the way. John (on this blog page) I also worked at GCCC when both you and Bruce were there. I saw the deceitfulness of the so called pastoral leadership at the time. They had no problem in fabricating false and damning evidence to get people sacked (I use the term ‘evidence’ very loosely here). This pastoral leadership is only out to serve them selves. This issue goes much deeper than the board and Bruce. This is a people driven church and God just has an invitation to attend every now and again.
that is very true…
Having read the many posts, not one has ever mentioned Bruce Hills the person. Having known Bruce Hills way back in 1987 when he was the Youth Pastor in Richmond AOG when it was called “Richmond Temple”.
I can attest personally that Bruce has helped me countless time then when I was a troubled youth whom dropped out of school getting himself into mischief. It took years later for me to go back to TAFE college and to re-establish my relationship to my parents through his help.
At one stage when I was penniless, out of his wallet he gave me $500.00 and said that I was not to pay it back but said to give it back to the youth group. He knew if there was a substantial rise in the weekly offerings.
Now I don’t know what happened in Queensland but maybe some people need to hear some testimonies from the dark past to demonstrate just who is Bruce Hills the person is really like.
i believe even hitler did one or two good things…let me tell you…the man did a lot to hurt a lot of people…from PERSONAL experience…we should forgive him…but when he goes aorund preaching how HE was hurt…what a load of rubbish…how much he hurt many others is incomprehensible…he made hitler look like a sweet little girl guide in the way he screwed people over…
Please note my dear friends and fellow christians we are talking
” Hillsong Ltd ” The entity is business. Serious business Directors and Managing Directors. This is Wall Street Chaps. The take over cost zero and I estimate 30 Million dollars in assets. there is no turning back. Nice work Gordon.
Remember Bruce appointed each board member. Whats the diference between Australian Christian Churches and Gloria Jeans? Answer Gloria Jeans sells more coffee but Hillsong sells more CDs. Try standing Brian Houston down, no such luck. Churches will be franchised in the near future and Bruce can buy back the Lords Church. Weekly franchise fee 10% of the gross. One week we took $250k Big Bickies. We are not here to judge the experience but to master the experience.
Does’nt God have a sence of humour. Pastor Brian refers to our church as Hills Brisbane. There could be something in this Pastor Bruce. Uncanny isnt it.
Just another interesting fact. Pastor Brian is not on payroll. It certainly improves the bottom line on the balance sheet.
Just another thought. How many CEO type Pastor do you know in Australia?. I think the board had been briefed before Bruce got his notice. The stage had been set. The only other CEO Pastor is Phil Baker (Riverview Perth) I would not be suprised if Hillsong has Riverview in there sights, another lucrative entity to take over. Go Gordon Gecko.
Interesting thoughts. I have to say that I am a lttle uncomfortable entering into discussions with someone who has an alias of ‘Judas’.
don’t let him near the purse…or close enough to kiss you!
I thought one would understand the humour with an alias like Judas.
The plot thickens: Laurie Ellis was the executive Pastor under Pastor Bruce, who was asked politly to resign a few weeks before Pastor Bruce went on sick leave. Rumour has it Fiona Hills and Pastor laurie Ellis had some words leading up to Pastor Laurie being asked to stand down. The board encouraged Pastor Bruce to go on sick leave after that altercation. However Pastor Laurie had some alies on the board. needless to say revenge was in site. Today Pastor Laurie works for one of the board members.
lionfish; You need to be a Dolphin while swimming with sharks.