Steven Furtick’s ‘Graceland’ – updated*

 

WCNC reports…

“Almost five months after the NBC Charlotte I-Team raised questions about finances at North Carolina’s largest megachurch, Elevation Church has posted its audited financial statement online for the public to see.

The financial statement puts hard numbers on some of what the I-Team first reported in October – that the church pays members of its own board of directors (called the Board of Overseers) to speak at Elevation Church.

Warren Cole Smith, who reports on the church for World Magazine, calls the payments a “clear conflict of interest” since the board sets the salary of founding Pastor Steven Furtick, who also appears at the churches of some board members.

The financial statement says the board members were paid a total of $13,000 last year, but does not specify which board members were paid, when or how much.

“It immediately raises the question about how objective they can be – whether they will truly be independent in the process,” Smith said.

He referred to the newest disclosure as “baby steps” in the direction of disclosure.

The financial statement totals the salaries of the entire 100-plus member staff at $7.5 million for 2013. But it does not spell out how much Elevation Church paid Pastor Steven Furtick in salary or housing allowance for his Weddington estate, valued for county taxes at $3 million.

Elevation has also joined the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, a group founded by Rev. Billy Graham and others, to set standards for churches after a series of church scandals in the 1980s.

But ECFA rarely publicly criticizes its own members, who pay dues to join the group.

If a ministry has problems, “…They just kind of escort that ministry out of the ECFA and don’t make a big to-do of it,” said Rusty Leonard of Ministry Watch, a watchdog group founded and funded by donors looking for guidance on giving to Christian churches and ministries.

The audited financial statement spells out the potential risk of a downturn in contributions if the charismatic lead pastor, Steven Furtick, were ever unable to perform his duties for any reason. Furtick founded the church less than a decade ago with his wife and six other couples who moved from Shelby, North Carolina, to the Charlotte suburbs. It has since become the state’s largest megachurch with an average weekly attendance of almost 14,000 people at nine locations.

The financial statement also excludes income paid directly to Pastor Furtick for sales of his New York Times bestselling books and for speaking fees. Furtick has flown to England, Australia and Colombia to speak at large conferences for which he is compensated.

Furtick has declined numerous requests to speak on camera about church finances and how the church is governed.

Elevation Church has not released its bylaws.

ELEVATION CHURCH AUDITED FINANCIAL REPORT

http://annualreport.elevationchurch.org/

From http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Elevation-Church-posts-audited-financial-report-250695061.html

 

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37 thoughts on “Steven Furtick’s ‘Graceland’ – updated*

  1. Image the sermon on the month given by one of these preachers as compared to Jesus, and that through the eyes of the young person.

    By Jesus
    Mum: Well son what did you learn from this man in the wilderness
    Son: He spoke of the Kingdom of God and how blessed are the meek and humble who put others before themselves, and seek the Kingdom of God
    Mum: That must have been great, what else happened.
    Son: The man of God took my lunch, but used faith and feed us all with plenty left over. Man I ate well.
    Mum: What did you learn
    Son: Well mum, today I learnt to be meek and humble and that God will supply.

    By a preacher like this
    Mum: Well son what did you learn from this man in the luxurious building
    Son: He spoke of Building and how blessed are the ones who promote themselves and are proud of their power in god putting themselves before others, and to seek the success.
    Mum: That must have been a let down, what else happened.
    Son: The man of God took my lunch money, but allowed me to listen to him. Man I ate nothing.
    Mum: What did you learn
    Son: Well mum, today I learnt to be take others lunch money and God wants profit makers.

    Like

  2. Yea, Bones can’t have a church that is getting from church goers “more than a half-million dollars a week” helping the Body of Christ grow for nothing can we. You know its not about “freely give as ye have freely received”, but rather keeping up a profit all for “christ’s” work. Not sure which “christ” they are working for, but that profit is ever so important.

    Its a sad reflection of what Christianity has become where one has to be well off just to receive all the biblical secrets another has learned. Well I suppose people have to start off as “well off” until the church depletes it with their (tithing) programs, pleas for funds and courses to learn the secrets of the bible.

    This is a church making millions a month and they can’t give back to the body of Christ the “secrets” to success they have learnt from (supposedly) God. What, a hundred or 200 people @ cost price (much less than $700). Surely they can work out a system to select those who are genuine and most likely to benefit from it. And it be a mere “drop in the bucker” compared to their disposable receipts

    Yea I know, its not Biblical secrets, but rather money grabbing secrets to success of numbers giving financial success.

    Like

  3. Well – it seems to me that having achieved what they’bve achieved they only want to work with people serious about building their churches – it costs money to put these events on (not $700 a head) but really, $5-700 per head is not so much for this sort of thing. You walk away with resources, you get all their information adn its limited in number so you’re not going to be one of thousands. I’m not concerned at all about these prices – in fact I think that’s cheap. Pay the money – get serious, value what you’ve invested in.

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  4. Furtick always sounds like he’s on speed.

    Btw you can hire Furtick for $700 a head for 5 hours for your conference.

    And no, that doesn’t include lunch.

    I wonder how much Jesus’s appearance money was?

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  5. Jeff, from what I understand Jakes is a “Oneness” guy if that’s how you put it.
    I’m not. I believe in the orthodox teaching on the trinity.

    I don’t know a great deal about Jakes.

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  6. No, Q likes Jakes because other people pay their rent and food money to him, so Q can get an ‘encouraging word’. Q, won’t because he knows it’s bullshit. But that’s ok because Jakes has a big church.

    Like

  7. It seems like this “Q” guy likes to defend T. D. Jakes – is this “Q” a Oneness Pentecostal? Does “Q” deny the Trinity too, because Jakes does.

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  8. Steven Furtick Proves That It Is Time to Stop Giving to the Local Church

    “Is he not doing the exact same thing that the money changers were doing in the temple? Using God’s house to make a profit?” “Do you know what Jesus did? He made a cord of whips and drove those damn people out of God’s house. The church does not exist for this.” Chris Rosebrough

    Jesus wept

    I have been wanting to write this post for a long time. Stuart Watson’s excellent expose’ on the lifestyle of Furtick, along with the Charlotte Observer’s informative article, made it clear that there is no time like the present. This post is aimed at well compensated pastors, not the majority who never make the news, slogging along in the trenches and living on a shoestring. We respect your hard work and labor of love.

    Are you, church contributor, vaguely discontented by what your money actually supports? Do you ever wonder if your money supports anything of eternal value? If you are a member of a church with a well paid pastor, and you see any of the following, maybe you should consider giving your money elsewhere.

    But shouldn’t you stop attending such a church? Well, that’s what I would do. However, some people have lifelong friends within a given entity. Others have a family member who really wants to keep going. Some may just like the coffee. This post is for those of you who want to stay. I am also going to assume that you give some money to the church. If you don’t, good for you.

    Recently, I read a story on SGM Survivors in which a family ate oatmeal for dinner in order to scrape together money to give to an SGM building campaign. This reportedly happened while SGM employees were reportedly traveling to conferences, sending their kids to private Christian schools, living in nice homes, etc. SGM was begging for money to build and grow and were telling other people to sacrifice.

    I remember an article in the PDI magazine that focused on a large family who ate oatmeal every night so that they could give to PDI. They were praised for this wonderful sacrifice beyond their tithe.

    I say enough of this nonsense.

    Stop giving if you cannot find out your pastor’s salary and compensation package.

    From the Charlotte Observer we learn

    (Chunks) Corbett would not divulge Furtick’s salary,

    If you give money to the church, you have the right to know exactly how your money is being used. For example, we have reported on pastors who make $700,000 a year and also gets a parsonage allowance. Parsonage allowances are tax deductible which also should be figured into the total compensation package. One needs to also look at FICA, sabbaticals, conference and travel fees, etc.in order to fully understand how much money is involved. If they will not tell you, why would you give them money? Also, ask yourself, given all that you know from reading this blog, why should you “trust” them to handle all this money appropriately?

    Stop giving if the church hires outside “well to do” pastors to be on a compensation committee in which the proceedings are kept secret. Also, ask if any of those people on the committee are ever given perks like paid speaking engagements, etc.

    (Furtick’s undisclosed salary) which is set not by a group of lay members of the church, but by a board of five out-of-town pastors. Furtick is also on the board, but doesn’t vote on his salary, Corbett said. These out-of-town board members are friends and mentors to Furtick and, like him, lead growing megachurches. They include Perry Noble of NewSpring Church in Anderson, S.C., and Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist in Plano, Texas.

    Can you really trust other mega church pastors, who all live well, to actually police their buddy’s income? Take a look their names and try to find out how well they live. I bet that they keep their income a big, fat secret, as well. Also, besides being on a committee, see if they ask each other to speak at each other’s conferences and are paid for doing so. If so, could you see how can I get involved in this cash cow? I have heard of another church which has a retention fund in order to keep the pastor when he starts threatening to go elsewhere. Such Godly behavior demands rewards.

    Stop giving if the church also has to hire an attorney to do a compensation study.

    This board bases Furtick’s salary, Corbett said, on a “compensation study formulated by an attorney’s office” that’s not tied to the church.

    Why in the world are your precious donations going to attorneys to figure out how much to pay your pastor? You can be sure that it will not be the median of the congregation. They want more, a whole lot more. Then ask, why do they need an attorney? Attorney’s are always involved in limiting liability. So, think of it this way, your donations this year may have paid for a well off attorney to up the compensation for your very wealthy pastor. What a way to give to back to God!

    Stop giving if your well paid pastor lives better than most of the congregation

    Drive by his house. See what kind of car he drives. See what kind of vacation he takes. Think about it.

    Stop giving if your pastor won’t answer the question of how much he makes while acting like a wuss by sending his “good ol’ boy” friend to speak for him.

    Corollary: Be suspicious of any spokesman who tries to sound like a good old boy who drives pickups (For example, they have names like Chunks or Bubba.) They are not good old boys; they just play one at church.

    (Chunks) Corbett said

    Stop giving when your pastor says, in a sermon, that the church is being made to look bad when it is he who is looking bad.

    You may view such a cowardly act on the infamous video. You, the hard-working contributor, are supposed to take the hit for your pastor’s poor judgment? He should take it on the chin like a “real man.” Instead, he is hiding behind his congregation and his wife, Holly. He gets the glory for his books and fame. Holly gets tacked on when he is in trouble.

    Stop giving when your money goes to more buildings, expensive equipment and well-off pastors.

    Look at the church budget. Add up the salaries and administration and building debt. Look at the top of the line audiovisual system. Look at the glossy presentation materials and expensive, personalized videos. Now ask yourself a question. Do you really think your money is making a “difference” for the kingdom when you compare it to example of Jesus and His apostles?

    Stop giving if your pastor, who is well paid, claims he owns intellectual rights to his sermons.

    Your pastor presumably develops his sermons during his expected work week. Would Proctor and Gamble give away the rights to a new dish detergent to a researcher who was hired to do just that?

    Stop giving if your well paid pastor complains he works more than 40 hours a week.

    How many hours should your pastor work? Well, I have read of some pastors who make $500,000 a year, plus benefits, complaining that they have to work more than 40 hours a week. They need “family time.” Most people in the real world who make that kind of money usually work far longer than 40 hours and don’t whine about it.

    Stop giving money if your well paid pastor writes books on church time and then gets all of the proceeds.

    See my comments on intellectual rights above. Also, if he asks you to purchase his book in order to be an intern at the church, ask who gets the profits. (Thanks to a new commenter.) Ask to see it spelled out in writing.

    Stop giving if your well paid pastor is double and triple dipping.

    Here is how this plays out. The pastor gets a certain amount of conference time a year for which the church pays room, board and fees. In fact, Kevin DeYoung says that this is what you should do to really show you care for your pastor link.

    So, your pastor could speak at the conference and be paid by the sponsors as well as being given room, board and the conference fees. He could also get to sell his book, developed on church time, and then keep those proceeds. He could even encourage his church to use the book in Sunday school classes and small groups which means more book sales.

    True story: My friend walked into a room in his former church and found copies of the pastor’s books stacked ceiling to ground. I wonder. Did the church purchase those books, hoping to sell them? Perhaps someone’s hard earned tithe money went to furthering the kingdom by purchasing stacks of books to hold up the ceiling? Ask questions, folks, ask questions.

    Does the Bible say you must give to the local church?

    All authoritarian pastors tell us that we must give to support their vision and enterprise. Many of them also demand a tithe which they define as 10% gross. But, if you look carefully at Scripture, this is not said anywhere in the New Testament. And the actual percentage of the tithe in the Old Testament was greater than 10% but that is a subject for another day.

    I would urge all of you to stop giving to rich churches and pastors or abusive churches and pastors. Do you think they even give a hoot about your sacrifice? Instead, look around you and find Christian ministries that are housed in old buildings, sacrificially serving the poor, the let down, the homeless, and the disenfranchised.

    How about an African American church that helps poor kids after school or feeds people under the bridge? How about rescue missions that reach out to the unloved? There are ministries that look after persecuted people groups or victims of human trafficking. I bet each of you know quite a few. I know such ministries would be thrilled with your donation and you might feel like your have done something worthwhile and eternal. Your money would actually do more good with these groups than the purchase of one more Bose speaker for Sunday morning. Think about it as you view the video from last evening. I will post tonights follow-up after it appears.

    Stop Giving Money To Rich Pastors and Churches!

    http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/10/23/steven-furtick-proves-that-it-is-time-to-stop-giving-to-the-local-church/

    Like

  9. “It’s Not Your Money!!” Says Steven Furtick, as He Proudly Screams “Yes! The Church Wants Your Money!!”

    “Yes, the church wants your money!! Guess what? It’s not your money! God gave you that money, Big Boy!….my name is Steven Furtick, and I approve this message!” Steven Furtick – SEE VIDEO BELOW
    ———————————–
    What is so fascinating about mega church pastors is the new lows to which they plunge in their attempts to expand their church, and to extend their reach into the pockets of their followers.

    In the video below, Steven Furtick of Elevation Church in Charlotte, NC, proudly proclaims that “Yes, the church wants your money”, and then tells his church members as they hoot and holler: “It’s not your money!”

    What Steven means is that he and his church have a greater right to your checking account than you do. None of your money is yours, says Steven. All of your money is God’s, and you need to give God back at least 10% if not more, since he gave it to you. And here’s the catch: to give God back what he gave you – which doesn’t make sense since God owns it all anyways – according to Steven you have only one choice: give it to Elevation Church – because Steven is building the church that Jesus promised he would be responsible for.

    “And once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks who went for a walk in the woods…”

    Furtick’s claim to his follower’s money is so illogical, and so wrong-headed, that to hear the hoots and hollers from the crowd as Steven spews this nonsense, tells me this church is on its way to being a cult, and Steven Furtick a cult leader. Perhaps it is there already.

    I don’t point out the exploits of Furtick and his other mega church pastor friends just to get a laugh and chuckle. This is serious business, these guys are forever damaging Christianity in America.

    When I heard Furtick spew this nonsense, it reminded me of the story a friend told me about why he had to stop attending his church. His pastor was so aggressive in raising money that he told the men in the congregation that if they were not tithing, they were not “real men”. The pastor said they were having other men “pay their way”, and that no real man would have another man pay their way. And for good measure, the pastor said if you’re a man not tithing you probably are not a Christian. This man was giving some money to the church, but he was struggling financially, had two kids in college, and was being very generous to his family in providing for their material and educational needs. He went to church to get encouragement in his faith, but instead was told on multiple occasions from the pulpit that he was no damn good, was not a man, that the pastor was the “real” man, and that in fact he probably wasn’t a Christian because he didn’t give 10%.

    So this man felt he couldn’t return to the church and continue to expose his family to a preacher who denigrated their own father’s faith and manhood from the pulpit.

    This is what is happening in evangelical churches – pastors who have such a love of money and power, they are turning away clear-minded, rational-thinking believers. And young people who are very adept at seeing through these shallow preachers, will be turned away from Christianity altogether.

    And what this will leave is churches predominantly filled with Kool Aid drinkers who don’t dare question the pastor, and who will fork over 10% of their money based on fairy tales and myths and believe they are buying favor with God.

    Avoid these churches like the plague, Christian.

    http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/its-not-your-money-says-steven-furtick.html

    I blame the morons who go to see this fool.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    Like

  10. So, have fun preaching that to the “rest of the world!” and see who they think is the retard.

    I’m not preaching anything.

    But everyone can see that your defence of these scammers makes you the retard.

    In fact you’re probably worse than them.

    Because you know what they’re doing is wrong.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    Like

  11. Oh I almost forgot some sage words of advice still relevant 1700 years later.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

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  12. That’s right Q send Jakes your rent and food money.

    Go on.

    You want to be blessed don’t you.

    You want more money.. more sex…better job.

    Give Jakes your seed .

    Go on.

    No you won’t.

    Because you know he’s full of shit.

    Of course the weak and stupid can’t see that.

    Like

  13. Sorry, didn’t see that video. Didn’t realise you’d bother to paste two videos! You’re one obsessed man aren’t you?

    “What’s that Q, you’re not sending him your seed.”
    No. lol I don’t feel like it, and I didn’t feel God tell me to either.

    “You must think he’s full of bullshit like nearly everyone else.”
    No. I didn’t give money to lots of things today. Doesn’t mean anything.
    But many people think he says some good things. There was a very favourable article about him in Time Magazine a few years back. And he’s considered a leader in the black community. He can preach, write, sing and now makes movies. If you don’t like him, that’s okay. But thousands of blacks are in his church and not on drugs. maybe that doesn’t matter to you. Fine.

    “But yeah let the sick and weak send their rent money to this con artist so he can put his face in the trough and let everyone else see how fat he’s got off other’s money.”

    Like I said, he has sold lots of books, sold music CDs etc. Basically, I don’t really know WHO sends their money to him.

    “OINK! OINK!”
    First thing you’ve said today that makes any sense.

    “But yeah don’t say anything nasty about Q’s lovers.”
    Lovers? lol haha You can say what you like. You can even say “oink oink” for all I care.

    “Btw if Hillsong or Houston died tomorrow, the world wouldn’t be affected one iota.”
    So what’s your problem?
    But I think your wrong. Houston seems to have lots of friends and followers,and churches all around the world love Hillsong music. Even the Catholics. I think you’re wrong there.

    “I’m not interested in bringing the rest of the world to Christ.. I’ve lost interest in Christianity a fair while ago.”

    I see. Okay then, close the door on your way out. But, why do you spend so much time on these boards.? Maybe you need a new hobby. Something to fill the place of Christ. If you have no interest in Christianity or bringing people to Christ maybe you could enter politics, or open a gay bar, or sell Jerome T-shirts?

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  14. So the two athletes interviewed are more than happy to tithe. Hollyfield is happy to tithe 3.5 million out of 35 million. They both say they want to do it and are happy to do it, and have no problems with it.

    According to this TD Jakes is bad because he gave a press release that famous people had been baptised. I don’t see what’s wrong with that at all. Did the athletes getting baptised get upset? no.
    But that cranky old man who is on every anti-preacher show gets his face on TV saying he was upset about that? Really? The news that sports stars got baptised? Interesting philosophy.

    Jakes has a big house. He also has sold lots of books. Have you read any of his books? I think Woman Thou Art Loosed did well. I think he has other businesses as well.

    So you who give NO money to these guys go to all the trouble to post a youtube about guys who willingly tithe to the church because….???

    And you tell me to give them money? Why? Why should I give them money. I never said that I have or that I would be.

    I think Oprah liked Jakes book. Probably got publicity out of that I suppose. But, it’s not really my problem anyway. But the more that Anthony guy gets upset the bigger these churches get, and I don’t think any NFL stars of boxers are so convinced of his sincerity that they go to see him to hear the gospel or get baptised. You probably can’t understand why. I can.

    but again. If I had the choice of attending Houstons church where “kingdom women love sex” is in the bookstore or your church where Jeromes books are sold, I’d take my family to Hillsong.

    So,

    You like Jerome so much Bones. Sell your possessions, take a vow of celibacy and go and find a cave somewhere outside of Bundy…

    “The truth is that, in view of the purity of the body of Christ, all sexual intercourse is unclean.” Jerome

    PS, Your wife would probably be overjoyed with your latest Jerome kick! lol
    Remember, Jakes, Hinn, etc aren’t my heroes. I don’t quote them. Don’t give to them.

    But since you love quoting your hero Jerome , here’s another one.

    “”Woman is the root of all evil…It must be bad to [sexually] touch a woman.”

    So, have fun preaching that to the “rest of the world!” and see who they think is the retard.
    Praise God that NFL stars got baptised. Something positive to rejoice about.

    Remember – don’t touch that wife of yours tonight in the cave.

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  15. Better give these guys your money, Q.

    I mean they’re your heroes.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

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  16. Quick Q send him your seed.

    Just send him your seed to have a better marriage, sex, job, more money

    What’s that Q, you’re not sending him your seed.

    You must think he’s full of bullshit like nearly everyone else.

    But yeah let the sick and weak send their rent money to this con artist so he can put his face in the trough and let everyone else see how fat he’s got off other’s money.

    OINK! OINK!

    But yeah don’t say anything nasty about Q’s lovers.

    Btw if Hillsong or Houston died tomorrow, the world wouldn’t be affected one iota.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    Like

  17. Hillsong could fall apart tomorrow and would make no difference at all to the world sorry to say. Not one skerrick.

    I’m not interested in bringing the rest of the world to Christ/Hillsong/Furtick/Jakes. Nor the size of their club. Wasn’t it you squealing about Kong Hee?

    I’ve lost interest in Christianity a fair while ago.

    People can get along quite well without churches scamming and abusing them.

    Honestly there are better shows on TV than the nonsense people sit through on a Sunday morning.

    Like

  18. “Is Hillsong finished? – Regrettably, no.”
    So, you won’t be happy until Hillsong is finished? And the kids who becomes Christians should all be told to become Anglicans? Catholics? Groupsectarians? Your church?

    “And Mike Warnke is still doing his shows.” I don’t go. But, there you go – nothing has stopped him so maybe you are wasting your time.

    “And these conmen”
    Td Jakes is a conman? You hate him too? And have proof that he’s a conman?

    ” know how to use secular law to sue and win massive tax breaks for themselves. Hinn has threatened youtube to take down all videos critical of him.”

    They know how to use secular law…….wow. That’s terrible isn’t it. They shouldn’t know anything about secular law. They should become hermits like your man Jerome? Actually, lots of people don’T allow their videos on youtube. Look it up. As for tax breaks? Maybe they are similar to Bono, Al Gore, Trump. Most people like tax breaks. Look it up.

    “And while the Christian world adulates the Hinns, Houstons, Jakes and Furticks the rest of the world thinks what a bunch of retards for falling for their rot.”

    The rest of the world probably doesn’t know much about Christian ministers. They usually only find out about them because crazy Christian enemies go to the media trying to bring them down.
    But – actually more of the “rest of the world” have become Christians through the men you quoted than you! How about that. Those guys have been way more successful than you at introducing the “rest of the world” to Christ.

    When I was a kid, people like you were harping on about Billy Graham. The “rest of the word” said he was just in it for the money and turning Christianity into a fear show in circus tents. Look it up. The biggest movement gets the hits. And once again, it’s usually not actually from the “rest of the world” but from raging angry nasty little enemy Christians who want to convince the “rest of the world” about why some guy is bad.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    OH that’s beautiful. Paul was a nobody who became a celebrity. So was Peter.

    but, wanna do a test? Let’s get the “rest of the world” and get the to choose churches. Explain to them what Furtick believes and then explain what Jerome believed, and let them choose.
    Guess what? I think it’s a safe bet that the “rest of the world” will think Jerome is the much bigger retard.

    Want some more Jerome quotes? About virginity, sex, marriage, women???? Look it up.

    So, you think the “rest of the world” will be happy to sign up for virginity even if they are married and join jeromesong?

    a Jerome….we need him more than ever.

    Finally, some people in the “rest of the world” think you are a complete retard for believing that Jesus rose again, and for even bothering to spend so much time attacking ministers and quoting some dead guy who thought women were evil, that Adam and Even didn’t have sex before the fall, and encouraged everyone to give up sex?

    And here’s the thing. If you lived in Rome you would have been attacking jerome. Heard about his disciple who died in four months after following his ascetic lifestyle?

    Jerome……??

    Yes, he was against money and celebrity. He was also against men being too ardent in love making with their wives.

    Okay Bones. Follow Jerome and become even more of a girlyman, and Furtick and Jakes and I will get bad to our ardent lovemaking!

    Jerome………

    lol

    Like

  19. Is Hillsong finished?

    Regrettably, no.

    And Mike Warnke is still doing his shows.

    And these conmen know how to use secular law to sue and win massive tax breaks for themselves. Hinn has threatened youtube to take down all videos critical of him.

    And while the Christian world adulates the Hinns, Houstons, Jakes and Furticks the rest of the world thinks what a bunch of retards for falling for their rot.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    Like

  20. All I’m saying is that I think the people who make their whole ministry one of critiquing other ministries should be upfront about what they make.

    That’s all.

    It doesn’t matter to me what Furtick makes because I don’t tithe to him. If I bought a book off him I still wouldn’t care because I buy books from other people.

    I’ve been made to buy a book from a Professor at a Uni who wrote the book on uni time.

    And how much Furtick – who to be honest I’d never even heard of makes isn’t really my concern.
    But if chris and the Anthony guy make a living out of telling people that other people should tell people how much they make for a living then , maybe they should tell people how much they make for a living.

    Furtick doesn’t force me to tithe to him.

    And usually, the secular media aren’t the ones who start all the investigations. It’s other Christians.
    You realise that?

    Swaggart went after Baker and threatened to go public. Baker then went after Swaggart. Other Christians are always on TV telling non-christians about other Christians.

    So Christians spend (well some of them spend their whole lives) telling non-christians about how bad other christians are because they are worried that the bad Christians will no want to be Christians because of the bad Christians……

    SO who wins out of all this?

    After the years of Christian trying to go to the media to expose Houston and Hinn or whoever they think is bad, what has been the end result? Is Hillsong finished?

    IF someone is continually lying – like Warnke or the Kung Fu guy from China then tell them to stop. Fair enough.

    But has the church been cleaned up by all the going to the media? If anything, there are more mega churches, and higher salaries, and how they’re evening doing reality shows.

    I don’t see what has been achieved, except that some non-christians don’t want to have a bar of anything. eg. I don’t see non-christians breaking down chris rondeboogers house to ask him to teach the TRUE gospel. And ole anthony – are many non-christians beating down his door saying thank you for exposing the wolves – teach me true shepherd?

    But what I DO know is this. Chris ROdenshomgen makes a living not making bread, or making software but by sitting on his backside critiquing sermons. And Ole Anthony makes his money by being on every TV expose of a naughty minister.

    So, how much do these guys make?????

    You’re not interested?

    WHy? You’re not a member of Furtick’s church but you seem to be so interested even though you don’t pay them a dime. So, why are’t you interested in the Minister Buster guys.

    Baptist church guys in the US with a church over 1000 get 200gs I read. Are you mad about that?

    10 years on 200, 000 and I’m sure you could end up with a 1.7 million house.

    Many people in Sydney have houses over a million.

    Anyway, sayonara.

    Like

  21. What’s the problem?

    On another thread you were asking how do people believe these lies.

    If it wasn’t for investigative analysis by Cornerstone, Mike Warnke would still be a best selling con artist built on lies.

    Now you want to shoot the messenger.

    Fmd anything that gets Christians thinking critically has to be a good thing.

    Like

  22. @Bones. No.

    But many people he talks about aren’t demanding anything either.

    If you don’t want to tithe to Steve Furtick don’t bother. He isn’t OUR Steve is he? lol

    Like

  23. Of course it’s the ones who enable these narcissistic conartists who are at fault. If you’re ok with a pastor who demands your money cos it’s God’s then goes and lives up the high life then you’re pretty f**ked in the head.

    What we have is an epidemic of narcissism, consumerism, immaturity and a bunch of other nonsense going on in American mega-churches. And I don’t just blame the celebrity pastors like Furtick and McDonald though – even if they deserve heaps of blame. I also blame the willful blindness of their enabling followers who are drawn to big personalities like moths to light. Are some naive victims? Sure. But many just like a good show, a commercialized and commodified sense of spiritual community and being in the presence of celebrity. They too allow this to happen.

    Of course the Aussies can’t wait to get their snout in the trough.

    OINK! OINK!

    Grow up you stupid bastards!

    Like

  24. “If Steven Furtick’s followers in the congregation at Elevation want to pay him these outlandish salaries and want to allow him to live in multi-million dollar homes, that’s up to them,” said Smith. “They’re the ones contributing the money. But they should know that.”

    Aaaah but if you are taught that wealth is a sign of God’s blessings and you too can be like me, if you buy my books and give me your money. How are you going to question that?

    Go against the man of God?

    You don’t question why the fat pig lives with it’s snout firmly in the trough and you can’t question when you’re trapped in that mindset. Especially when you want to become like the fat pig.

    “Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.” — Jerome

    Like

  25. He can build a massive home with 19 acres of land for 1.7 million which is amazing if you compare it to Aussie prices

    These days in the so called great nation of Australia a small block of dirt in surburbia costs $3oo ooo+. The biggest greedy scammers are the govt, banks and land developers all feeding on normal working class people.

    Can’t believe how much people have to pay to build or buy a average home these days

    Like

  26. So is it a religious organisation where all these donations are tax free? Or is this a business he runs where everything is taxed. He does the studio out of his living space, so basically no overheads? Everythings profit right? So how much does his sermon critiquing business rake in each year? And what does he do with that money?

    Not that I care, but given that he spends his time telling Christians what’s wrong with other minister’s sermons….I suppose people wonder how lucrative his ministry is.

    And you say he’s preaching the gospel? How many unsaved people listen to line by line sermon critiques? So he’s preaching the gospel to reformed Christians? Who, already know the gospel because God chose them?

    And this guy spent 2 hours criticising a woman lutheran pastor. Then after talking to her becomes a friend and stops criticising. …So if he didn’t have a moving chat with her, he might have spent another 2 hours next month bashing her if he got tired of other people to bash, and all the reformed Christians with time on their hands would have been listening and saying “yeah, you tell em Chris!”

    Maybe Chris could learn Korean and just beam the gospel into North Korea or something.
    I think most people who don’t like Hillsong can probably do their own critiques, and those who aren’t Christians probably couldn’t care.

    Just my thoughts.

    Like

  27. @ Q – Chris Rosebrough owns Pirate Christian Radio, it’s listener-supported $6.95 a month, and a there’s a few 0ther programs there, Lutheran-based. The podcasts of all programs are free to anyone, the support just an appeal. He doesn’t have a mansion, he’s rents a small home (I’ve seen it in occasional home pics , his studio is in his home. It’s his choice to live modestly). He’s got a degree in Religious Studies and Biblical Languages from Concordia University in Irvine, as well as a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from Pepperdine University. You asked the questions- it’s easy to find the answers.

    “Pirates are vicious, cruel and heartless thieves, why would you name a Christian radio station after them?
    “Pirate” radio stations are those that broadcast from outside of “the system”. We are no different. Now-a-days, far too many “Christian” radio stations have become havens for every absurd fad and all types of foul winds of bad doctrine that are blowing through the church. Sadly, the Gospel and sound doctrine have mysteriously disappeared from large segments of the ‘Christian’ airwaves. The system has become corrupted by false doctrine and false teaching. That is why it has become necessary for us to create a “pirate” Christian radio station.
    Pirate Christian Radio is an online radio station that is free from the scurvy plagues of pop-psychology, goofy fads, self-help, pietism, purpose-drivenism, the prosperity heresy, contemplative mysticism, seeker-sensitivism, liberalism, relevantism, Emergent nonsense, and the sissy girly Oprah-fied religiosity that is being passed off as “Biblical Christianity”..
    This station proclaims “Christ crucified for our sins” and exalts and defends THE historic Christian faith.
    If you’re looking for “Biblical Principles” that will improve your financial situation, help you raise happier children or have a more fulfilling sex life then you’re NOT going to like Pirate Christian Radio.
    But, if you are looking for Christian programming that is truly Christ Centered and proclaims the good news of Christ’s death and resurrection for your sins, then you will find Pirate Christian Radio to be a refreshing stream of living water that quenches the thirst of your soul.”

    http://www.piratechristianradio.com/schedule.html

    Like

  28. By the way, how much does John Mccarthur make. And Chris Rosebrough.

    Does Chris make a full-time living out of tearing apart people sermons line by line?
    If so, how much does he get for that?
    Does he have a job or do people give him offerings to do that?
    Sounds like a pretty easy way to make a living. Do people actually send him money so he can scour the web for sermons to criticise and make fun of?

    If so, I’d say it would be easier to just be a mega-church critic than a mega^church pastor.

    Do you think people would send me money to be Peter Pan who beats up on Pirates and does podcasts going through each line of Rosenbroggens stuff?

    And ole ole Anthony. How much does that guy make for telling the world about what other guys make.

    Like

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