At home with ‘Jesus and Mary of Kingaroy’ – answering the critics

 

From 9:11 mark of above video…

AJ Miller: “One of the things I’d like to mention about people who quote the bible to me, is they quote the bible to me, making the presumption that the bible is true. And I’ve quite categorically stated in many occasions, the bible is not true and anybody who assumes the bible to be true is already often assuming things that are out of harmony with truth or life.

Mary Luck: “In its entirety you mean?”

AJ Miller: “No, that’s correct. There are certain things that are true inside of it, but in its entirety it is not true. And just because a person is quoting a verse to me, it means nothing. It only proves to me, that person is indoctrinated by the bible. That’s all it proves. It doesn’t prove anything else. It doesn’t prove I’m a deceiver. It doesn’t prove I’m a false prophet, it doesn’t even prove I’m not Jesus. All it proves to me is that they are completely indoctrinated by a book that contains a whole heap of falsehood and a whole heap of truth, in my opinion. That’s all it proves.”

 

Flashback 2011

David Millikan writes…

I have been writing and broadcasting about cults and new religious movements for the last 25 years. During that time I have met more than 10 people who claimed to be Jesus Christ. About 5 years ago I organised two of them to meet in the hope that they would see the absurdity of what they were saying. They talked for two hours and afterwards thanked me, for they could see more clearly that they were the true Jesus. Both also warned me that the other was mad. I had to agree with them.

And then there is Alan John Miller, the 47-year-old real estate developer and computer wiz who says that he is Jesus. What makes him different is that he is not mad. On first meeting he is a friendly, generous easy smiling man who has followers joining him at his centre outside of Kingaroy in Queensland. Earlier this year I attended a seminar Miller held in the Murgon town hall. There were people there from Japan, Russia, Switzerland, the UK, USA and Germany. For two days, he held the group entranced. At one point he wrote in large letters on the white board: “I’M JESUS, DEAL WITH IT”. He told me it began about 10 years ago: “I started having violent memories of my earlier life. It was horrific visions of my crucifixion.”

Miller has the first characteristic necessary in leaders like this. He believes every word he is saying. You cannot attract followers if you have the slightest shadow of doubt. So in this sense he is not a con man who goes to bed at night delighting in his subterfuge. He says he is the same Jesus who lived 2011 years ago.

Since his first death he spent the time making his way through an elaborate series of heavenly levels until he achieved oneness with God. Miller was happy to talk to me about the people he met in the afterlife. “I was good friends with Plato, we had lots of talks. He has changed his mind on a lot of things.” He knew Napoleon, and Mahatma Ghandi, who Miller claims has change his mind about sex. Apparently he is now all for it. He was buddies with Elvis, Socrates, Saint Augustine, and his cousin John the Baptist.

At one level, Miller is a curiosity who it is fascinating to watch. We live in a pluralist democracy in Australia so we have no right to constrain his right to tell the world that he is Jesus. But there is always a problem with people like Miller. He will consume you. As you walk along the path with AJ Miller, ever step the demands compound. You can never match the ferocity of his self belief. The closer you come to his fire, the more you will be burnt.

There is a strange dance between gurus and their followers. He needs their money, time and absolute obedience. They need him to be who he says he is. Outside the group AJ Miller is nobody. He is a knockabout Aussie bloke who no one can take seriously. Inside he is a colossus. To his followers, his words burn with the light of divine truth. To the rest of us, his endless DVDs are nothing more than prolix ravings.

Miller is surrounded by people who have walked out of marriages and businesses. They have forsaken all to follow Jesus. Dr Louise Faber neuroscientist left the Queensland University Brain Institute to buy a property next to AJ in O’Dea Road, outside Kingaroy. I asked her if she believed Miller was Jesus. She said: “Oh yes David. I known he is Jesus.”

In the same road the ebullient Peter Heibloem has a property. Heibloem runs Alpha Dynamics, which he claims is the oldest registered self help program in Australia. You have to pay big dollars to attend a Heibloem seminar. He told me repeatedly that Miller was Jesus, and that he knew of at least two occasions when he had seen him perform miracles of healing. In the same road is David Ward who Miller has convinced was Cornelius, the Roman Centurion who was in charge of his crucifixion

And then there is Mary Luck. According to AJ, Mary was with him in the first Century, they had a child together and since then Mary was with him as they climbed through the spiritual realms to achieve oneness with God. AJ was the first to reincarnate in 1962 and Mary followed 13 years later. Mary is a beautiful but sad figure. She has been recovering memories of her former life and now believes that she was Mary Magdalene. She has bought the entire package now she and AJ are inseparable. She is untroubled that Miller has had at least two other Mary Magdalenes before her. There was the 20-year-old he left his wife and two sons for, and there was a girl in Barbados.

All gurus create a distinctive culture around them. Miller lives in a world of emotional intensity. His followers break easily into tears. They practice beating pillows, AJ has destroyed his garden shed.

Baseball bats and pillows are supplied. Mary is first among them. She fights back tears when she recalls her memories of Jesus being crucified: “This was the annihilation of the man I loved most. I saw him tortured to death. I was there and it is like it is happening again.”

Mary recalls being raped by one of Jesus disciples and the baby dying of starvation and neglect. She relives the seven years she spent in a brothel in Jerusalem. It is all returning in excruciating detail. She said: “I now understand why I have had trouble with sex in this life. She has written about this in a blog she calls “God and my vagina”. When she heard that my program was going to air on Channel 7 she wrote: “I rest easy in the knowledge that our intentions are pure, and we are honest people who speak up for truth. I will simply be humble to the storm ahead.“

There was a moment in the life of Jesus (ie., the first one) when things became so difficult that many of his disciples walked away. It says in John’s gospel: “Jesus turned to the twelve and said: ‘Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied: ‘To whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

I fear there are the faithful few who will do the same today and follow this Jesus to the end.”

From http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/blogs/article/-/10267813/jesus-of-kingaroy/

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41 thoughts on “At home with ‘Jesus and Mary of Kingaroy’ – answering the critics

  1. When holy spirits come to world , no body believe them because they dont have eyes to see them . Only people who belives in divine energy can feel their presence.If u dont have eyes or sense please dont comment.People are following because they are getting something from them.Why followers are after you or me, THink about that and one more things people get to divine point if they dont lead a normal lifestyle.Dont see negative always try to see positives please

  2. Yeah a few Christians mentioned to me that “nutter on telly who says he is Jesus”. I just told them to ignore him and concentrate on the real Jesus of history and the Bible. People like this are like bushfires – they thrive on the hot air of publicity. Sad that so many Aussies have been sucked in…

  3. I’m pretty sure the Church of England would have guidelines so that whatever profit made by Alpha wouldn’t be lining Nicky Gumbal’s pockets.

    In 20 years or so of service in the Anglican Church I never heard one message on tithing or prosperity. Stewardship – yes. I’m sure it’s because the ministers are paid a set wage. Parish councils are accountable to the Diocesan Bishop in charge so can’t just spend it willy nilly which can be very frustrating at times.

    That is a big difference between the mainline churches and Pentecostal churches.

  4. I could be wrong of course; I’m just going by what I’ve heard. LF is quite right that the course may be delivered with different slants in different Churches.

    My investigation of alpha has only been of the most cursory nature; as I said, I’m thinking of attending one to see how it looks from the inside and get the low down.

    One thing I have noticed is that various “resources” that one needs for alpha, or that are touted as being “helpful”, come at a cost; so there is an appearance of making merchandise of the Gospel, even if that wasn’t the intent.

  5. I attnded the alpha course about 10 years ago and thought it was ‘on the level’.

    If it has become a trojan horse for the toronto blessing I would think that this would be the facilitators spin on its delivery.

  6. @Margot,

    It depends on what you mean by “involved”. I’m carefully observing developments, and I’m thinking about going along to see for myself how the course looks from the inside. However, there’s no way I’d get involved in assisting with actually running alpha, for which there are two reasons. The first reason is that I don’t want to be complicit in what amounts to a toronto “blessing” trojan horse, the second is that I abhor such things as programs and courses in the church (in keeping with the thought that “God so loved the world that he didn’t send a committee”).

    I personally suspect that they switched to alpha because they are looking for more bums on seats (and thereby higher earnings), and they see alpha as a ready-made drop-in quick fix. They have been going on and on and on about money recently, and I get the impression that they may be under a little financial stress. The GFC and fallout therefrom wouldn’t be doing them any favours, but it may be that they are also encountering some resistance from the punters in the pews – it has actually been said from the pulpit that “too many people are getting their theology from the Internet”. I take this to be a none-too-oblique reference to the proliferation of anti-tithing and anti-prosperity apologetics essays and pieces that are so easy to gain access to on the web – obviously if church attendees are paying attention to these then C3′s income will drop commensurately.

    Whatever the reason, the irony of the situation is not lost on me: here is the “best church in Australia”, with the “best leaders, pastors and preachers”, and the “best worship”, and they are “bright, relevant and contemporary” and “filled with the Holy Spirit” and “anointed by God”, and they have been “given the city of Sydney” which they will take by storm for the Kingdom of God. Uh, except all that is not quite enough, so they need to, um, bring in canned evangelism from an Anglican church. But no, it’s not a tacit admission of defeat, or an altogether embarrassing state of affairs, or a humbling come down – it’s the way onward and upward! Yeah, right – it makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

  7. @ Bones – but I loved how they did the offering message. No tithing, just solemnly saying “we will now take up an offering”! We were used to 30-40 minute spiel on how our money was cursed if etc etc….

  8. @ CCCer – are you getting involved the course at C3 now it’s up and running? In the past people who attended Christian Essentials were quite impressed, they actually heard the gospel. Wonder why they switched?

  9. Hello Margot,

    I have read that the Alpha course starts off as orthodox for the first couple of sessions, and then goes off the rails. The word was that it is in fact being used to (re-)introduce the Toronto “blessing” into churches.

    So yes, that’s definitely a matter to be concerned about.

  10. @ CCCer – referencing Nicky Gumbel and the Alpha Course book…..

    From BTM “we can say that the book itself is not recognisable as a ‘Toronto’ book – because it was written before ‘Toronto’ appeared. But, since the inception of ‘Toronto’, charismatics have added to the book’s ‘flavour’ and amended it in such a way as to make the course heretical.”

    “In a very real way, then, the book has (possibly inadvertently) been used to promote Toronto-style ideology. But, as Gumbel has done nothing to stop the process, we may safely say that he approves and condones it. (This is inevitable, because he was one of the first to promote the Toronto movement in the UK). ”

    @ CCCer – the times we visited Holy Trinity Brompton in London, were quite eye-opening. At that time we were still caught up in the whole “charismaniac stuff” that arrived at C3 Brookvale with Rodney Howard Browne.

    Being in an Anglican church, it was bizzare being part of a service with the vicar Sandy Millar, dressed up in ceremonial robes, and Nicky Gumbel in his cardigan (odd) at the same time, overseeing the laughing barking shaking etc etc etc…

    So should we be concerned? Probably.

  11. I was going to be a reincarnation of Frank Houston until I remembered that would involve having sex with young men.

  12. I am now the reincarnation of Pontius Pilate, who ordered Jesus’s crucifixion.

    I am presently making a large cross in the shape of a T.

  13. I am no longer Lionfish.

    I am the now the reincarnation of John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

    I am heading to Queensland to get admission into the inner circle and recieve special treatment from AJ-Jesus.

  14. Hello Machoman,

    ‘But, I don’t think it was a case of “the devil made them do it” either.’

    Check out the similarities between the Toronto “blessing” and the manifestations that accompany the presence of the Kundalini spirit, and also the means by which the spirit can be imparted. The Toronto “blessing” is a demonic counterfeit comprising new age / Eastern mysticism / occult practices (along with a bit of mesmerism / hypnotic suggestion thrown in, if I recall correctly).

    Spiritual manifestations that don’t come from God, and yet are genuinely spiritual, can only come from one other source; so this is certainly a case of “the devil made them do it”.

    The tie up with Holy Trinity Brompton is an interesting one – it’s a good reason to be very wary of the alpha course.

  15. David, I think that as time goes by you will be seen as one of the greatest theological thinkers of our time!

  16. “RHB was so rude and arrogant.”

    This of course is the secret. RHB, Copeland, the Bam Bam guy.
    Dumb Christians will always follow a confident arrogant preacher instead of a good humble man who love God and loves people in the same way that there will always be dumb women who will fall for a confident sleaze bag instead of the decent guy who isn’t sure of himself.

    One of the great mysteries of life is the wrong people seem to have all the drive, ambition and confidence. From preachers, to businessmen to politicians.

  17. “People were just so willing to fall over, bark, laugh, carry on like idiots.”

    “willing to” is it exactly. I really hate to use this word, but to me its just a case of playing silly buggers. ‘showing my age”.
    Whenever I’ve been in a meeting like that I didn’t sense that it was the Holy Spirit making people do that stuff. But, I don’t think it was a case of “the devil made them do it” either. People just love doing that stuff for some reason. I suppose in the end it makes them think they touched God, and experienced something. If RHB or someone similar held a meeting and said that in his last meeting somewhere people did handstands and cartwheels, sure enough some people would start doing them.

    We Christians are a strange bunch. But probably no stranger than people who pay money to go to a hypnotist show and cluck like ducks etc etc.

  18. @ Greg – were you the guy who wanted to punch RHB’s lights out? I remember that one – he had good cause, RHB was so rude and arrogant.

  19. The whole ‘Toronto Blessing’ was one of the things that caused me to question a whole lot of what I was being taught at that time in m,y Christian life – I was at the RHB services at CCC when they were still in Brookvale. People were just so willing to fall over, bark, laugh, carry on like idiots. One guy even walked up the front while RHB was talking and started worshiping him…horrendous stuff. So many people were caught up in this idiocy and still are.

  20. @ Bones – it turned up everywhere else for years (and they’re still going at it in Toronto today).

    We saw it in London in Nicky Gumbel’s church Holy Trinity Brompton, C3 brought out Rodney Howard Browne for a few years.

    It’s the fad-driven church these days…….(and conference -driven)

  21. Whatever happened with that whole Toronto Blessing thing?

    I remember going to one of the big churches on the Sunshine Coast and it was obviously something not of God. People barking, laughing hysterically, in trances, drunk in the Spirit. Never went back

  22. AJ Miller is a low life creep who preys on weak and hurting people. The most horrifying thing is to see the children being brainwashed by him. It is so sad to see so many people believing this trash and believing that this scumbag is really Jesus Christ. It would be better for him to never have been born than to do what he is doing. He is better off with a millstone hung around his neck and thrown into the depths of the sea. This is a cult where the Government should and must step in and take control of the situation and get rid of this creep.

  23. So many people are suckers for someone who appears totally convinced about something. Confidence gets people every time.

    And my guess is that within a few years, Jesus will decide that one Mary is not enough.

  24. Was watching the “Sunday Night” show on channel 7 last night which had a special investigative story on AJ Miller. Part way through the show my wife turned to me with a shocked expression and said the guy who was claiming to be a re-incarnation of Cornelius was in fact someone we knew a few years ago. Turns out she was right. This guy we knew was a new ager who went completely off the rails a few years back and nobody knew where he went to. So I gather he is at the compound now…

    Its saddening to see these broken people being emotionally manipulated to such a degree. This AJ Miller guy is destroying lives for his own selfish agenda. The truth will come out in a few years when inevitably his true motives become exposed. These ‘messiah’ cult leaders tend to be driven by a craving for power and sex.

  25. The manifestations – shaking, crying, visions are eerily similar to those seen at the Toronto Blessing debacle, IHOP, Todd Bentley’s Lakeland “revival” etc.

    Same old lies, just new packaging…..

  26. It seems that the weirder you are and the weirder the claims you make, the more successful you will be at attracting followers – whether they are rich, poor, educated or not.

    Which is why mainline denominations are dying.

    That lady may be a neuroscientist, but she’s also a silly gullible woman.

    As for David Millikan the reporter … check out his research on the Children of God and David Berg. This Kingaroy Jesus is an amateur in comparison/

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