After 9 years and a much-needed break, Group Sects has been re-designed.
Each post now has a much-shorter preview.
There will be a much wider range of religion-based stories beyond the traditional theme of the site of ‘exploitative Christianity’.
You can follow Group Sects on Twitter @groupsectsnews to receive the latest story updates.
Image credit:Damián Navas
Group Sects 
@wazza
“Yeah well, we can’t all be such deep and critical thinkers as you, Q”
That’s the problem. You could if you tried. Stop just regurgitating what liberal media and personalities, and educated fools tell you. Think!
“I was 17 when I got involved in a Christian group and church. ”
Good for you!
“Critical thinking and alternative religious points of view were not exactly encouraged, they were ‘of the world’ or ‘of the devil’. ”
Well some of them may have been. Most religious organizations believe they are right. That’s why they exist. But, there are also brainwashed liberals who would never watch Fox News. Or Breitbart. Same thing going on, just different words.
But in the end, “Die gedanken sind Frei”. Its up to the individual to control their own freedom to think. I did at 17. I did at 15. And I do it now. Which is why you and the other lemmings were crying and shocked when Trump won.
I thought for myself. Same goes with everything. Abortion, gay marriage – you name it. I don’t succumb to the pressure to cowardly agree with what the crowd says.
“Pentecostalism was presented as the authentic version of Christianity that the Apostles practiced. ”
Let me guess. You went to a pentecostal church. If you went to a Catholic, Orthodox, SDA etc etc they would all say the same thing.
And the guys who write diet books will all tell you our ancestors ate whatever it is they are writing about. Thats …the way it is.
“I was discouraged from taking a theology class at uni because it would ‘destroy my faith’.”
Well, there ARE people who come out believing nothing because they are taught by people who believe nothing.
But who get paid to do so.
But in the end….I hope you learned to do what you wanted to do regardless of whether you were discouraged or not.
Thankfully, though millions were discouraged from voting for Trump by being called deplorables etc, they did what they believed in. You should do the same.
“They used similar thought-stopping techniques as the ones you have practiced on me, ”
Lol. The old thought-stopping technique #6. No, I didn’t try to. I think you stopped thinking a while back and let the Huffington Post and others do it for you.
“eg. when I raised a concern or dissenting opinion, they would ask ‘Are you really a Christian?’”
Well I have asked that because many of the things you have said sound like someone who is not a Christian. That’s all. I thought maybe you were an ex-CHristian. Look, if someone says they think the US needs a wall, to scrap Obama care, and jumps up and down at a Trump rally, is it wrong to ask “Are you really a Bernie Sanders supporter?” Thats all.
I’m not against questions at all.
Just wondering where you are at.
If someone is attacking Christian teaching every week and thinks male anal sex is great, nude church services are fine etc, its not wrong to ask. If you say you are a Christian then fine. we now live in a world where you can be filled with tattoos, swear like a trooper, berate anyone who thinks male on male sex is strange, support prostitution and slander Christians – and proudly say you are a Christian. Heck, you might even become a priest and get paid to do all the above. Its a new thing in history – but, thats what it is.
All you seem to need to be able to say is, I think Jesus was cool and you can be a Christian these days.
“But I’m glad to hear of your new-found interest in critical thinking and comparative theology. ”
Not new-found. I always was like this.
“Maybe when a new person comes to your church you could give them a class explaining all the different branches of Christianity and their main beliefs. ”
Good idea. But I think every adult on the planet would do well to know the basics of the various religions and their histories. Most people on this site talk about Islam without knowing anything about the life of its founder and its early history. Note to the alleged school teacher here – kids should leave school knowing the basics of the worlds major religions. Otherwise what are we learning in 12 years. It’s an outrage.
“Or at least a directory of other churches (including the gay ones), mosques, and a reading list for them to educate themselves. ”
I have no problem telling people that there are gay Christians who believe its okay to have a gay partner and live with them. I can explain their reasoning too. Probably getter than the average gay Christian.
Ive read all their stuff. And I will read what Mr Groupsects comes up with. I’m willing to change my views on it if its convincing.
“Maybe when you are discussing issues you could consider a whole range of opinions and debate their pros and cons, ”
I always do.
“rather that the oppositional and insulting way you argue on this blog – ”
I reason politely with polite people. If people use sarcasm and belittle churches and people, i have probably wrongly assumed that its fair to respond with the same – to show their shortcomings.
See, this whole website attacks and is happy to publish satirical pieces against conservatives and churches. Is it wrong to do the same? The only thing I dont do is swear. If the swearing slandering, mocking people cant handle it when their positions are shown to be ludicrous, then why do they comment?
If Trump is mocked, then why cant I mock clinton and Sanders? If Hillsong is attacked and lampooned, why can’t the Anglican church, or the Wazza philosophy?
Why are liberals the only ones allowed to figuratively and literally beat people up?
“I’m sure is not the way you behave in church or at home.”
Well nobody in the churches I go to swears and continually attacks Trump, me, Hillsong, all of Christianity in the way you guys do.
Wazza, if you ever want to look back over your posts, and conclude that you are loving, polite and considerate to Trump, Houston, conservatives etc, I’ll show you where you haven’t been.
And just remember. There’s always four against one here.
(Which is the way liberals, and Muslim usually fight – in gangs. )
Outnumber an opponent then go for the kill.
I just happen to be able to take you all on – and beat you at your own game. And i do it without copying and pasting the opinions of some idiot journalist in a left-wing rag operating under orders of his editor, and I also dont have to swear to make a point or sound tough.
Makes me have to use a few more words – but its much more noble.
Bless you. Have a great day!
PS. I wont bother answering your next post about being a jerk. Should I call you a jerk back? Or would you then do the typical liberal bully tactic and start playing the victim.
LIberal – You-re a jerk!
Conservative – How can you call me a jerk when you said and did …….XYZ
Liberal. Wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaahhhhh. conservatives call people names and are hateful. Love trumps hate. I hate you you jerk!!!!
Its getting tired Wazza. You guys are digging a bigger hole and people are waking up to it.
And no….this wasnt ghost written by a Russian…..
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PS
I am against tithing, think Hillsong is more a youth club than a church, and wish Brian Houston would just be on a more reasonable salary.
But it’s HIS church and up to him and the board members.
I think the Catholics live it up in the Vatican too.
But -I still think Esther is more babe than skank.
What would Explorer Pants know?
He hasn’t explored anyone’s pants other than his own since Brian Houston strung three sentences together without butchering the English language.
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@Lionfish
(1)
I don’t belong to Hillsong and won’t be joining.
The Anglican Church IS dying . Ask the higher-ups who are trying to save it. I know Anglicans. I also even know a foul-mouthed, theologically-confused, belligerent old man who going to be one of their leaders soon.
(2) anglican priests ARE on a good wicket!
50-70k? Some with accommodation and other perks?
Some in tiny churches?
Compare people around the world doing REAL hard work! If you think 50-70 k isn’t bad for preaching sermons that Mr bean goes to sleep in, sipping tea with old Miss Longbottom and then trotting off to the latest conference discussing whether the Anglican Church can be saved by gay didgeridoo players calling bingo…
then you are out of step with reality.
(3) Esther is a model. Models (if they are successful) travel, hang out with cool people and use social media.
The top ones make good money. But your average model doesn’t make as much as Anglican priests and don’t have job security. Models need to make a lot while they’re young. As opposed to Anglican priests who can be boring as hell, ugly as sin, and get their theology from the latest episode of SNL.
(4)
Well you put (4) twice – maybe you should go into the Anglican priesthood.
Hillsong are against sports?
Ever heard of Jarryd Hayne? Mark Hunt?
If you’d like to do research into hobbies and sports participation comparing Hillsong and Anglican youth – go ahead.
If your daughter is beautiful / great. But aren’t you being a little shallow! Proud! Hope she doesn’t ever post a selfie …. or what will you do? Not let her sing hymns with odd numbers?
(5)
no bad comments about Anglicans?
Lol
I love Anglicans!
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“There will be a much wider range of religion-based stories beyond the traditional theme of the site of ‘exploitative Christianity’.”
Lol
I think you really mean that you will continue to produce the bad news coming from any sect of Christians in the world – including “former” adherents, and put in the occasional feel-good article about a nice Muslim.
But it’s your blog and that’s your prerogative.
And it’s still the most interesting blog on the internet with Church news.
Hope you had a good rest. Hope you find a nice girl someday!
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Pirateer –
1) You unashamedly mocked the Anglican Church in such away that I have seen a number of times from the platform of a large contemporary church. The Anglican Church has its share of problems but is not dying world-wide. It has a different value set and different priorities than that of Hillsong. Don’t look it up – go spend spend some time with the Anglican community.
2) Anglican Priests are NOT “on a good wicket” – $50K-$77K. Compare this to the Houston’s tax-protected annual income streams $1.2M+ (inclusive of LMI inc).
3) Esther is certainly an attractive girl – as per her Instagram selfies. She obviously lives a glamorous, materially successful lifestyle, gets to hang with beautiful people and travels between Sydney New York London.. This obviously inspires young girls to follow her on Instagram. Its pretty cool – how can any of us compete with that. I almost can empathize with her and her relatives when the drama’s unfold – like the episode of the ‘forgotten Angora cardie when I got to NY’.
4) Its the Hillsong value set that I will keep my children away from. They are better off pursuing real friendships, loving sports and nature – staying away from the bathroom mirror uploading selfies and pictures of their wardrobe. You see – it’s all about a difference in values. I hope my own beautiful daughter is mentored by some real, flesh and blood ‘P31’ role models – and she already has a number of those in her life.
4) I have four Instagram followers and I love each and everyone of them personally. 300,000 would be very tiring for an introvert.
5) I am heart broken that you don’t want to follow me. Absolutely. The invitation is always open – I have space for one more – but please no bad comments about the Anglican Church.
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If Esther is a skank then Bobbie is an old slapper.
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That woman is beautiful?
Hey, Pirateer. Hear about skank? Look it up.
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Anglican priests are on a great wicket. Look it up.
Re Anglican Church. I don’t bash them normally. Just if HIllsong is bad, what’s the alternative? The Anglicans? Their churches are dying and have been ever since WWW1. Look it up.
Re Esther. What a babe! That woman is beautiful! So the Houston men have great taste in women.
She is smokin hot. So, don’t get why her instagram says anything bad about Hillsong.
She has over 300,ooo followers and lots of nice comments.
What exactly is your point. This site used to be frequented by people who saw nothing wrong with nudity, prostitution, male anal and oral sex, and even nude church services.
But you will attack Hillsong over a hillsong pastors wife who has nice legs?
I dont follow you at all. I’d rather follow Esther. (See what i did there?)
Ther regular looney left wing liberal theological probably had a float at the gay Mardi Gras and felt that playing ring a ring a Rosie with rainbow people was the spiritual highlight of the year – and you attack Hillsong over beautiful photos of the wife of a pastor who is blessed more than any man should be? Lol
You lost me mate.
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Pirateer – Why do you Hillsong advocates always have to show contempt to etablished churches such as the Anglican churches?
Despite their failings, these Churches have ministers that live on a humble wages, do not promote (what Jesus termed the decietfulness of) wealth, have served in country towns, remote communities, hospitals, prisons, refugee detention centres and armed forces) for many years.
I thought Hillsong may be improving what it teaches and promtes – but frankly it appears to be getting progressively worse:
https://www.instagram.com/estherhouston/?hl=en
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Greg could revive Signposts and explain how the beheading of a German by Muslims in the Philippines was because of Trump and evangelicals and how he could bring peace with his next didgeridoo accompaniment to the Hymn singing of the blue rinse Anglican ladies Auxiliary choir.
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Lionfish, are you sure about that?
The Hillsong Church Watch people are convinced the whole of Christianity is against them and non-Christians don’t like them..
And …and…. that lady wrote a book about them, Pirate Radio has explained how bad they are and….Bones mocked them and…
well, wouldn’t the good people of Perth prefer a nice old Anglican Church??
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Brian Houston “Pssst….The coast is clear, Lance White has shut down ‘Group Sects’ …. Everone ready ….. Now Chaaaaaaaarge – “. …..
http://hillsong.com/perth/
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Is Trump mentally ill?
No
Or just too flakey to be POTUS?
No, he’s doing well. If the insane left-wing media weren’t spending all day everyday attacking him, you wouldn’t even be thinking about it.
Who has won when the lunatics are running the asylum?
The lunatics were running it but they’ve been voted out. So relax.
No, on second thoughts, they are still running complete holes like Chicago where they haven’t been able to solve anything even after being in charge for decades.
But wait. If Trump is completely handcuffed by undemocratic idiotic liberal opposition and treason – he’ll make America a lot better.
Just as long as the insane sulking cry baby left can shut up and get back to work.
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Is Trump mentally ill? Or just too flakey to be POTUS?
Who has won when the lunatics are running the asylum?
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explorer pants
“Please post a link to your blog or website, Q. Also expecting no censorship on your part either.”
If it start, I’d only censor antiAsemitic rants and foul language.
“If you have the guts.”
Was this said in John Wayne style?
You know – manly and tough?
Explorer the tough guy….
No wait a minute -it couldn’t be.
The men who post here think John Wayne was a racist, sexist, beastly politically incorrect representation of all that was wrong with America.
They’d never watch a John Wayne movie.
Greg, Explorer and co would rather sit on a couch watch old Hillary speeches eating quiche and wearing their pussy hats before working on anti-Trump memes.
Since I left the silence here has been deafening.
It’s like telling liberals to only speak if they have something positive and intelligent to say
Yes the absolute hypocrisy of the insane left-wing has become laughingly obvious.
Did you guys see the This is Library video?
That’s classic left….
Wasting time yelling about Trump being racist and xenophobic, then when some guy tells them to be quiet they yell “Go back to China” lol
Almost as pathetic as the constant “racist, racist, xenophobic, love Trumps Hate” crowd who then attack Melania for her accent.
You guys lost. And though the media is attacking everyday trying to circumvent democracy and get rid of Trump, the public is getting sick of it and probably give Trump another four years.
By the way, can you guys fess up? It’s now well known that Hillary for years paid people to have multiple social media accounts and paste pro-Hillary stuff and criticize her opponents through blogs and blog comments etc.
Were you guys on the payroll? Lol
Or did you just post these dumb comments in the hope of getting a free pussy hat or free tickets to darker shades of grey?
“If you have the guts” rotfl
I’ll tell you what guts is – Trump doing a press conference and taking on all comers for over an hour. And winning.,
As opposed to Hillary who is still crying somewhere and Obama who got only soft questions from an adoring left-wing press who called him a rock star.
Explorer, if you and your girlie men liberal friends want to learn about guts, just watch Trump.
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“Would Q like to take old Melly on a date? Offer is open to all, just join the queue.”
Well the fat men here are probably into fat women. Not me.
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@greg
“Notice nobody’s rushing to ask you for a link to your pathetic blog Q?”
Lol
Said by Greg who took over that other blog and wrote some articles read by Greg and….
And then went ballistic at Steve over numbers…
Lol
Not your finest hour.
And don’t start sulking and getting self-righteous – you started with the “pathetic blog” comment.
Liberals – they dish it out but can’t take it.
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Please post a link to your blog or website, Q. Also expecting no censorship on your part either.
If you have the guts.
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Would Q like to take old Melly on a date? Offer is open to all, just join the queue.
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Notice nobody’s rushing to ask you for a link to your pathetic blog Q?
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So long, it must be great having all the answers.
When you think you are the smartest person in the room, then you act like a jerk.
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Speaking of last posts. I’m going offline.
If this place is still here when I get back, I will be posting under my real name.
So if there are ever posts from Q or any derivation it won’t be me.
Hopefully one day there’ll be a blog somewhere that isn’t hyper-Calvinist, or completely anti-Christian or completely anti-Houston family or anti-Trump.
In case anyone wonders , and probably nobody does.
I don’t believe in tithing, eternal suffering in hell, that the rapture/anti-Christ is coming soon, or that even 20% of the laughing, crying, falling over is the Holy Spirit or any of the diamonds, oil , gold dust, tooth fillings etc are real.
I don’t believe Israel has a biblical/spiritual right to the land, Or that their return is a biblical sign.
But am all for them being there, and think giving billions to Palestinians and letting more Muslims into western countries is insane.
I think Christianity is the only hope for the world.
And that most of the serious Catholics , and evangelicals are extremely nice good people who deserve the right to express their beliefs without vilification.
I think Trump will be a great President. But that the Obama family was the coolest.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there were devastating earthquakes, nuclear strikes and tsunamis that seem like the end of the world but also wouldn’t surprise me if I’m still alive at 100.
I’m sure nobody cares, but like I said this blog may not be around when I come back, and from now on my online activity will be using my real name and will probably be on my own incredibly opinionated blog.
Stay alive.
Ciao.
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Yeah well, we can’t all be such deep and critical thinkers as you, Q
I was 17 when I got involved in a Christian group and church. Critical thinking and alternative religious points of view were not exactly encouraged, they were ‘of the world’ or ‘of the devil’. Pentecostalism was presented as the authentic version of Christianity that the Apostles practiced. I was discouraged from taking a theology class at uni because it would ‘destroy my faith’.
They used similar thought-stopping techniques as the ones you have practiced on me, eg. when I raised a concern or dissenting opinion, they would ask ‘Are you really a Christian?’
But I’m glad to hear of your new-found interest in critical thinking and comparative theology. Maybe when a new person comes to your church you could give them a class explaining all the different branches of Christianity and their main beliefs. Or at least a directory of other churches (including the gay ones), mosques, and a reading list for them to educate themselves.
Maybe when you are discussing issues you could consider a whole range of opinions and debate their pros and cons, rather that the oppositional and insulting way you argue on this blog – which I’m sure is not the way you behave in church or at home.
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My last post was mainly intended for Greg, and for the Copeland/Trump thread.
But looking at Wazza’s post – it really fits.
It’s staggering that so many people become involved in organizations and just believe things blindly – from tithing to sexual morality, and only think about (or get “deprogrammed?””) by blogs years later.
The school system obviously doesn’t teach critical thinking. Which now should be obvious when you see the kinds of people teaching in schools.
If only people read more and thought more they’d realize there are alternatives to full-blown Pentecostalism, anything goes theology and Calvinism.
Extremism is alive and well.
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Lance, I’ve really enjoyed your commentary on this site and on signposts. It was on that site that my deprogramming process began and your combination of accurate reportage, analysis and humor was a big part of that.
Sorry to hear about your redundancy, I have been through a few redundancies myself and it isn’t always straightforward. Hope you find something worthwhile to do. I hope you get that piece of writing out because you are a talented writer.
Sites like this and signposts1/2 have made it more difficult for people to preach utter crap, because it all gets commented on in the blogs. There have been less stories from the West on crazy pentecostals and evangelicals. That can only be a good thing. The bondage that people were put under because they could not believe X, were not tithing, were not conventionally successful, did not have conventional sexuality, has been lifted for a lot of people.
Thanks again, and let us know what you move on to.
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Some of you are clearly mentally unwell.
So I’ll give you a free counseling session, after which you will understand yourselves better. And I’ll finish with some good advice.
Okay?
Here is the problem with many of you ex-charismatics/evangelicals.
(Based on decades of observation and reading)
1. You joined a church without any knowledge or research.
– you joined churches as kids or teenagers when you didn’t know about life, theology, church history, psychology etc.
-or you joined because of a crisis (drugs, alcohol, depression, loneliness, divorce, sexual identity conflicts, sexual guilt, financial problems etc)
2. In the beginning you thought you’d found the answer. You felt loved, part of a group, and thought your group and leaders had the answers and could change the world.
3. Somewhere thereafter you had another crisis. Prayers weren’t answered or you had a fight or felt rejected by a leader or someone in the group.
Then as the relationship worsened , and you argued more , you gathered more and more evidence and justification for your differences and disagreements.
4. After leaving you are obsessed with demonizing the group.
You’ll notice that most of you end up vehement obnoxious atheists / super liberal theology adherents, or hyper Calvinists.
I’ll give an example.
Sally joins the youth group of C3. She thinks it’s great – it’s her world ! But she never joined because after studying comparative religions or the various doctrines of the Holy Spirit she rationally decided Pringle was the most correct.
Things are great. But then something happens. She doesn’t get picked on the worship team or she falls in love with a bin-church goer, or she has marriage problems etc.
she falls out with the leader.
Then the battle begins.
She is accused of having a bad attitude or whatever.
After weeks months, years or studying ….,
She now has all the ammunition against her former pastor .
So now she’s a raving Calvinist who spends all her days attacking everyone who isn’t Calvinist.
So after years of ignorance these uneducated ignorant evangelicals are exposed to evolution, or atheism, or Calvinism or humanism.
They’ve just swung from one to the other.
So you end up like a sad Bones or Greg who will ignore thousands of terrorist acts in order to obsess over something a minister did wrong in Utah 5 years ago.
Or like the Calvinists church watchers they’ll write article after article about how bad Amanda wells (whoever heard of her????)!!!) didn’t write a big enough apology for copying something onto her blog that nobody reads from someone else who nobody has ever heard of.
It’s mental.
Or you just become manic copy and plasters of anti-trump material,
Quick solution.
1. Get a life
2. Realize no person or group is perfect
3. Read both sides – left and right.
4. Think for yourself and have some original thought after researching both sides of arguments
You don’t need a guru.
It’s just not true thAt most church leaders are amoral. and evil and incompetent
Or if they are – the same could be said for all teachers , all Muslims , all blog commenters.
Have a good day.
Enjoy life.
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Explorer,
I was being serious.
Blows to the head aren’t funny.
I know people who had trouble for years after an accident.
My comment to Lance wasn’t a put down.
For you to think that shows you don’t know me.
If you knew me in real life and how I’ve spent my life you’d know I don’t have to prove my empathy levels.
Lance was beaten. He said he’s had trouble to some degree with mental work.
I think a follow up examination would be a good idea.,
I would be completely ok with a ban on boxing for this reason.
Lance – while I disagree with his theology , is obviously clever and is also one of the few people in the planet who doesn’t moderate comments and so has my respect.
In case anyone else thought I was being sarcastic, I’ll repeat again. I think after a physical trauma – whether a fall, car accident, or especially direct punches to the head, periodic checkups are a good idea.
Read up on brain research.
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Book an appointment with Dr Dane Bramage.
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Seriously Q you need brain surgery to remove that tumour from your empathy region.
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Lance, have you had a brain scan?
Not trying to be nasty – seriously, if you’ve had knocks to the head it’s a good idea to get thoroughly checked out.
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Thanks for the posts, Lance. Much respect and all the very best for the future. Nic
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That drunk guy was pathetic. Sad. Feel for his mother and future kids.
Another obese foul-mouthed white guy who thinks he’s clever but just ends up making a complete fool of himself.
But …. he’d probably make an excellent candidate for Anglican priest in Australia.
He can join the rush to be an incompetent, amoral leader of a church in its own world. Watch out Greg, the competition is getting tougher….
Maybe Bones could take over a parish too!
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Lion fish, he hasn’t said he doesn’t have faith…just not the evangelical kind!
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Lance – I first encountered you nearly 12 years ago as an angry ranter on philbaker.net. I thought that you were hurt, angry – and at that point you did find it hard to articulate your concerns.
I remember testing your assertions and much to my own shock and dislike I found that some of the things you were concerned about were actually valid. This was about the same time as the SMH published “The Lord’s Profit’s” and BRW published “God’s Millionaires”. My own world was rocked and I woke up to the spiritual abuses of Christians in megachurches (particularly of Word-of-Faith), the excesses and tax-lax of the ‘Pastor-owners’, the dodgy-theology behind how Tithing was taught and promoted, the auto-cratic governance structure that places the pastor in ultimate-control and protects the family interests, the Brand protection, the public relations machine that placed Brand above people, Truth a and Integrity.
It was your persistence that shook the foundations, brought evil into the light and exposed much of what was wrong. In many ways you were the first incarnation of ‘Wiki-Leaks’ with much of what was learned was from insiders.
I have learned in recent times that not all AoG | Contemporary Churches are as bad as those high profile mega churches under the cohort of Senior Pastors of almost a decade ago.
And some Churches have grown, matured and changed their ways. This is in may ways because of the information that you helped make available on the web – and like in the case of Luther posting his 95 Thesis to the Church Door, it has had to some degree a reforming impact.
I cannot agree with your position on all matters theological – we have to agree to disagree on your position on homosexuality. This does not matter – I respect you and all you have done.
Mate, do not throw the baby out with the bath water – the Church is flawed, but it is the best thing we have on this planet. It is the only thing that can hold and disseminate the gospel. I do hope that you do find saving faith again.
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Patheos.com has a myriad of blogs in its stable there’s bound to be a dozen to suit your tastes.
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Mayhaps I will revive Signposts02 – i will not be a repeat of it’s former self or a reflection of this one. What do people think? Is it time to plug it back into the power source?
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I’ve been an avid reader since 2006 when I discovered signposts in my quest to learn more about the emergent church.
signposts02 died in 2015. groupsects will soon be dead.
What other sites are similar to signposts02 and groupsects that I should be following?
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